A question concerning the OSCE and the WTBTS.

by DATA-DOG 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    First of all, here is a good link with some information. http://perimeno.ca/Letters_1107_OSCE.htm

    So, has anyone actually spoke to their Elders about the UN and the OSCE from a confused sheep angle? I may be doing this soon, if forced to. Long story... Let's say I ask them about the UN/NGO incident. You know, I was reading news from around the World and saw an article about it.... Is this true, because it confuses me? Then I can give them all the info and ask them to please find out so that I can stop worrying.

    Then whatever they say, I can follow up with the OSCE/NGO relationship that is ongoing. Again, this would be as a frightened scared little sheep..

    Any thoughts about this approach, or the OSCE/NGO relationship. Is it still current? How long has it been going on? Also, wasn't there a quote somewhere about the OSCE being a staunch supporter, or very important partner to the UN? I don't want to even go down this road if I don't have accurate information.

    My gut tells me that if you are " no part of the world " then you should not be an NGO and support the charter of any Organization that is political in any way. Thanks in advance.

    Peace,

    DD

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Feel free to ask as a confused sheep. Any other approach just puts you on their radar as a potential apostate.

    But really, asking the elders questions gets typical responses.

    Anything like this gets: They offered their reasons (using the library) and we should believe them. Because some members were concerned, Mother didn't want to contribute to their stumbling and removed herself from this situation when the members voiced their concerns.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Thanks OTWO. So I take it you feel the Elders would just shrug off the OSCE relationship as well? I would think that they would at least speak to a CO or something..

  • JWB
    JWB

    I discussed this matter many months' ago:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/239364/1/The-European-Association-of-Jehovahs-Christian-Witnesses-and-the-OSCE

    This gives information about how the WTS itself understands about the OSCE according to one of its own articles, as well as links to relevant documents.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    I discussed this issue with one Elder, a good friend. He totally bought into the WTS' "we needed a library card" nonsense and saw no need to think anything more of it. He feels the GB can do no wrong and that being an NGO with the UN is not a big thing- as long as that's what the GB says.

    I agree with OTWO. Asking the Elders about this, even as a "lost, confused sheep" will put you on their radar for possible apostasy. Think about it this way: has the WT admitted in any official way to all JWs of this issue? Are most Elders even aware of it? The answer is 'no' on both counts. The first reaction you'll get from any Elder, since this is a big secret that's been kept from JWs is, "where did you get this information?", or "why are you questioning the Faithful Slave?"

    To answer your other question, yes, the WT is currently an NGO with the OSCE. As the website for the OSCE clearly states, it is a "political-military" organization and a close partner of the UN. Their goals are seen as mutually the same. The WT, in order to have NGO status, must agree to support the ideals and goals of the OSCE, just like they did with the UN.

    Even if you buy the lame excuse from WT that they "didn't know" what being an NGO with the UN really meant, and they discontinued that status once they did know, how is it even excusable that they dove right back into the same relationship with the OSCE, which is a political sister of the UN? They learned nothing and continue the same deception and hypocrisy- it's business as usual for WT.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    *** w81 9/15 p. 23 par. 15 Disfellowshiping — How to View It ***

    Or, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of an organizationwhose objective is contrary to the Bible, and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Compare Revelation 19:17-21; Isaiah 2:4.) So if one who was a Christian chose to join those who are disapproved of God, it would be fitting for the congregation to acknowledge by a brief announcement that he had disassociated himself and is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Watchtower 15 Sep 1984 p.15

    "No, the UN is not a blessing,

    even though the religious clergy of Christendom and the rabbis of Jewry pray heaven’s blessing upon that organization. It is really "the image of the wild beast," the visible political, commercial organization of "the god of this system of things," Satan the Devil. So the UN will soon be destroyed along with that beastly organization."

    "With 56 States from Europe, Central Asia and North America, the OSCE is the world's largest regional security organization. It offers a forum for political negotiations and decision-making in the fields of early warning, conflict prevention, crisis management and post-conflict rehabilitation, and puts the political will of its participating States into practice through its unique network of field missions.

    "The OSCE has a comprehensive approach to security that encompasses politico-military, economic and environmental, and human aspects." (osce.org/who 6th Oct 2012)

    The OSCE is closely aligned with the United Nations.

    The OSCE recognizes that the United Nations Security Council bears primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security. Thus, the United Nations is the OSCE's primary partner organization. (osce.org/ec/43240)

    *** lv chap. 7 pp. 82-83 Do You Value Life as God Does? ***

    STAY CLEAR OF BLOODGUILTY ORGANIZATIONS

    20 In God's eyes, Satan's entire world is bloodguilty. Its political systems, portrayed in the Scriptures as vicious beasts, have slaughtered countless millions, including many of Jehovah's servants. (Daniel 8:3, 4, 20-22; Revelation 13:1, 2, 7, 8) Hand in hand with these beastlike powers, business and science have worked to create some of the most heinous weapons imaginable, making huge profits in the process. How true that "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one"!-1 John 5:19.

    21 Because Jesus' followers are "no part of the world" but remain strictly neutral toward its politics and wars, they avoid personal and community bloodguilt. (John 15:19; 17:16)

    These confrontations are interpreted as satanic attacks on the true people of God. The faithful are encouraged to keep their distance from political and social institutions that represent this evil. In addition to all signs of patriotism (e.g., 196), certain social functions have similarly been viewed as involving conformity with a godless system such as the celebration of birthdays and holidays (197). -Revelation Climax

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Thanks OTWO. So I take it you feel the Elders would just shrug off the OSCE relationship as well? I would think that they would at least speak to a CO or something..

    Ha ha, speak to a C.O. or something. Not a chance. Even in the most polite of ways, they avoid confrontations and just take in what the C.O. dishes out without much feedback and without questions about anything. If a JW elder cannot find the answer on his own, he decides he doesn't need the answer. If he can't do that, then he stops being an elder and joins us on this forum.

    I don't think elders SHOULD shrug off anything but I think they will.

    But feel free to bring up anything if you are not concerned about being the target of their Aposta-RADAR.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    marked

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Aposta-radar...it may be too late.. Listen to the first 3 words of this film!! ADCMS, thanks for the post, very informative. Marking!!! Bumping!!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/osce

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    As recently as 2012, the "Watchtower Bible & Tract Society", the "European Association of Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses (United Kingdom)" and the "Administrative Centre of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia" and the " European Association of Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses (Belgium)" are listed as participants on an OSCE's 2012 HUMAN DIMENSION IMPLEMENTATION MEETING, that took place in Warsow between September 24th and October 5th, 2012.

    You can see the program of the meeting and the list of participants here: http://www.osce.org/odihr/96558

    Eden

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