by Terry 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I married in to a Jewish family and it was, honestly, my first genuine contact (up close and personal) with Judaism.
There are Orthodox Jews, Reformed Jews, Hassidic Jews....
I find the Reformed Jews to be practical not spiritual.
Good people consumed with creating the best life for their family as is possible.
dear Terry...
matthew 1:1...that doesn't say that Jehovah tempted Jesus. it says satan tempted Jesus.
matthew 1:8...that doesn't say that Jehovah delivered all the nations into satans hand...it says that satan believes he is in control of the nations. Of course, God says the He Himself lifts up kingdoms and brings them down...at His will.
you said: " Had Jehovah NOT delivered to Satan the Kingdoms and the glory the premise of the temptation would have been null. "...again, God does not tempt with evil. satan tempted Jesus with the easy way to get worship. Jesus rebuffed the offer in order to do the will of the Father the hardest way.
you said: " A distinction without a difference, I'm afraid " ...but there is a difference. you alledge that it was God who created the conflict about knowledge by putting a restriction on what adam could learn thereby causing him to go against his "nature". I said that it wasn't God who created the conflict about knowledge. God's warning was about death. satan manipulated God's warning about death and made it about God with-holding knowledge. as I said in my previous post: satan "made" the conflict about knowledge (where the original prohabition from God was about death.
"in the day that you eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will surely die" the text certainly eludes to the fact that a day for God is not what we would call a day. As it says in genesis 1:9-13 the earth was seeded and brought forth all vegetaion on one day. that doesn't happen in one of our days. with this in mind, why do you insist that God is lying because He said in that day. that day could have been a mighty long time.
you said:" I don't understand your objections, to be frank. What are you on about? "...my objections are these: you are deliberately mis-representing what the text says in order to try and make it conform to your "bias" toward God. (you have said: He's incompetent, lying, murdering, spiteful and dim witted) you are misleading people with your mis-information and biased accusations and THAT is what I am on about...I don't want to see JWN people mislead...I think they've had enough of that with the WTBTS...
...and then on another thread you say: "I have nothing against God"...does this suggest that you might be confused?
love michelle
myelaine:
you said:"you are misleading people with your mis-information and biased accusations and THAT is what I am on about...I don't want to see JWN people mislead...I think they've had enough of that with the WTBTS..."
myelaine, you've been on this discussion group since 2004 and have made 2,580 posts and under 20 Topics.
I have been on this discussion group since 2004 and I have made 14,927 posts and a little over 1,000 topics.
I'd say you've got your work cut out for you PROTECTING people on JWN from my misinformation and bias, wouldn't you?
You are entitled to an opinion but you are not entitled to slander me.
If you disagree with my posts START YOUR OWN TOPIC and explain YOUR views. That is how it is done in a postive and upbuilding way.
But, no--with you it is the "death by a thousand cuts" torture! You have offended me. It is wearing thin.
dear Terry...
I have reiterated what you have said about God. I have not slandered you.
I have explained and posted as simply as I can what the text says so that people can understand it. in another comparable thread of yours, people who have read the bible might even recognise that my reference to adam realising that he was no longer "covered" by the grace of God is a direct reference to the words of Jesus in revelation 3:5 (and many other places where the bible talks about being covered by the blood of Jesus Christ once we re-appropriate the grace of God) Your indignant response:"Where does your imagination find compelling evidence of that assertion, pray tell?" ...You have insisted that God made adam go against his nature by prohibiting him from seeking knowledge and threatened "a willful act of murder" if he did...AND that was a "test" from God. (IF THAT ISN'T A MIS-LEADING, BIASED ACCUSATION I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS)...
you're offended are you?...how very ego-centric of you.
I'm annoyed, but...love michelle
Here is where you are slandering me, myelaine:
.my objections are these: you are deliberately mis-representing what the text says in order to try and make it conform to your "bias" toward God. (you have said: He's incompetent, lying, murdering, spiteful and dim witted) you are misleading people with your mis-information and biased accusations and THAT is what I am on about...I don't want to see JWN people mislead...I think they've had enough of that with the WTBTS...
Myelaine: What you can't seem to get into your process is that we aren't dealing with FACTS or REALITY in these discussions.
No, we are dealing with our OPINIONS about ancient writings. We are dealing with INTERPRETATIONS.
What I am characterizing is MAN'S FOOLISH CONCEIT that the bible contains FACTS ABOUT GOD. It doesn't!
You can't be the defender of an ABSOLUTE TRUTH because you don't possess absolute truth. Nobody does because it is an elusive and foolish hubris.
Get over yourself. Your opinion and my opinion don't mean a damned thing in the grand scheme of things.
Like a great many self-deceived humans walking around on our planet you think you are right and everybody who doesn't agree with "your" sense of what that is becomes a target for vigilante action on your part.
This is all a bunch of tail-wagging and not much more.
dear Terry...
at some point in ancient history God spoke to people. He chose certain people out of all other people to reveal the "theologically" correct interpretaion of the world around them. Many ancient civilizations spoke about "a beginning" and "a flood"...God gave the correct meaning or interpretaion of these events to a people who incidentally haven't drifted off or been assimilated like other ancient people groups. It wasn't an accident that God revealed these things and His purpose to the very ones who would carefully preserve it. He planned on preserving them unique and for Himself!!
God also planned on preserving the church and the revelation that He gave them. I know that there are, in these times, many variations on a theme but, this also was foretold. I know you take great issue with the fact that "all we have is copies of copies of copies...there are no originals"...however, there were originals that these copies wee copied from. True we didn't see them in order to check every phrase or word against what we have now but, that is where people in our day have to get over themselves. the entire reason and purpose for the bible even as we have it, is to give more clarity to people regarding what God wants and does etc. A person has to trust what these people have said and tried to teach us...for our own good, as it is God's will for us.
Now, you don't have to trust anyone but yourself if that is what allows you to feel safe in this big world but for others that God is trying to reach out to in His love and grace with comforting words from the bible...words that will allow them to know that God IS on His throne...you are, in your unbelief, the one who appears to be the vigilante fighting toward eradicating all vestiges of "religious" thought...and I've seen that the way that you do this is not just question the validity of what is written but you twist it it suit your agenda.
one has to ignore the way that God has guided His people throughout history, one has to ignore the fact that things that are foretold in the bible are happening on the world scene, one even has to deny that there is anything "happening" toward the fulfilment of the end of the age in order to maintain that there is no there, there...that is a lot of looking away from evidence to conclude that the bible is merely some peoples opinion and that there wasn't direct inspiration from God in it's compilation, transmission and interpretation...
I wonder what makes you think it is more humble to say, "we don't know (because you don't know)"...than to say, "thank you, we have so much valuable information and thoughtful encouragement from those who have gone before us"...seriously, IS it intellectually honest to think that because you don't know, no one knows?
love michelle
