One of the reasons why I keep coming back to this board Torn.
If man evolved?
by tornapart 427 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Comatose
Lost. You said this.
orn apart we are thinking along the same lines.
Look at immigration, as an example.
A few families from a different race move into an area. They breed, say 6 kids each, those kids at 18 start breeding, 6 kids each, the numbers soon grow.
I have asked this question here, and I am going to ask it again. Lets see a show of hands.
How many of you on here, actually have qualifications in this field ?
Uni, degree's, experience of working in 'the field' ?
How many of you here actually have any experience of farming, animal husbandry, breeding stock (any animal ) ?
How many of you have any experience in environmental sustainability, bio-diversity and eco-systems ?
Anyone ?
Or are you all home schooled getting your information from book's/internet, other people's research, thoughts, ideas, theories, ?
Me:
Why you require such levels of interaction is beyond me. But here goes.
first off you made a claim that is apples and oranges. You likened immigrants with giant families creating a large community quickly to a time when mortality rates were horrendous and people lived to 30 years old. There was no society to speak of and food was a rare thing. I could go on but I hope you see the difference in your comparison.
Then you went on a rant about all the posters who differ than you not knowing what they are talking about and not being credentialed.
if you had skipped the rant and annoying attack on posters here not knowing what the were talking about no one would have jumped on you. YOU are the one attacking and being hostile. You make these blanket statements and insinuate rude things then wonder why WE are hostile? Sigh.
-
rawe
Hi Lost,
"Or are you all home schooled getting your information from book's/internet, other people's research, thoughts, ideas, theories, ?"
My formal education is 12th grade graduate, Correlieu Senior Seconday School, Quesnel, BC, Canada 1983. I would count myself a true subject matter expert in only one area of knowledge: The C Programming Language, which I've work with nearly every working day since the mid 1990s as a software engineer.
But I am not sure if your question really makes much sense. Of course I get my information from books, the Internet, research of others, etc. I am certain that even people who do the actual field work, combine that with exactly the same thing. Even though I claim expert-level knowledge of C, in real life, it doesn't keep me from making programming mistakes and when I express myself to another engineer, I cannot argue just from expertise, I must be able to show how this or that can be done better.
My comments about birth rates vs death rates stems from an article I read, but to be honest I no longer recall where I read it. Likely it was an article in Scientific American, since I've been a reader and subscriber to SA for many years -- even before I left the faith in 2007. My comments about the reproduction rates of elephants really does come from Darwin's Origin of Species, which I've read. As to field work, the closest I have ever got to that -- and this is fun to relate -- was walking out to the area near Tumbler Ridge in BC with my brother-in-law (he is still a JW) and looking at the dinosaur prints in the rocks near a river. It was absolutely amazing to see and feel such things in real life!
Cheers,
-Randy
-
rawe
Hi Lost,
"The natives were invaded and put of[f] the land, and turned into slaves and servants. If that hadn't happened in history, all our lives would probably be so much different."
I appreciate you're trying to make a different point that I will apply here... but your comment jumped out at me. When a native population is decimated by invaders and we're talking humans there are often social and politcal things in play. But... at a biological level, this happens as well. And it is very strange if you think in terms of special creation, but exactly what you would expect if you think in terms of evolution.
There is a quote in this article by Judy Holms that explains this idea...
“Darwin was among the first to consider species invasions as a biological process that is totally consistent with natural selection,” Fridley says. “Natural selection says a species needs to be as good as or better than its neighbors. But a species can’t have adapted to be as good as or better than something with which it has never had to compete.”
See http://asnews.syr.edu/newsevents_2013/releases/fridley_fulbright.html
Cheers,
-Randy
-
Aussie Oz
for some levity...
If we had evolved would we not have eyes in the back of our heads, 4 arms and retracted testicles?
I mean, at times i could do with the above!
(personally not wanting to weigh into the debate as i know F All about it, nor do i care)
Oz
-
Qcmbr
..I think you've described being designed by a committee.
-
rawe
Hi Oz,
If we had evolved would we not have eyes in the back of our heads, 4 arms and retracted testicles?
I know you're just kidding, but this is a good question! It recently was covered in a Scientific American article: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=evolved-eyes-back-of-head
Of course the reason has to do with a phrase Darwin used in his book, Natura non facit saltus (nature makes no jumps). See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura_non_facit_saltus
Here is my understanding. The theory of evolution dictates change happens, not so much as a random chance thing, but through a process of mutation, gene selection and what survives and what dies. In all cases evolution must work with the current state and in no way is purpose driven or planning towards some end. So when certain things locked in and worked all that happens is they get refined and refined. Thus forward facing 3-D bilateral eyes will be selected for in predators, and more off on the side non-3D surround vision in prey, such as rabits. Animals like us, tend to land on the predator side of this, so our eyes are forward facing. But because humans became so social, things like the white portion of our eyes became more visible -- it helps other humans know where our interests are.
Since humans evolved the ability to cover great distance and hunt in social groups, we gave up our 4 arms/hands and went instead with feet. Not too good for tree climbing but very helpful for covering distant without tiring out.
Our testicles are a bit retractable, in as much as regulating the temperature in this are of the body is critical. I've read, although not sure how well established these ideas are... Some experts speculate the changes in human sex organs, eyes, hair texture/color and breasts tend to reflect our upright walking stance. The challenge of attracting a mate face to face is somewhat unique to humans among mammals.
Cheers,
-Randy
-
Comatose
Randy, thanks for all you have contributed. I love learning about this stuff.
-
TD
If we had evolved would we not have eyes in the back of our heads, 4 arms and retracted testicles?
LOL
Also on a humorous note. There's a number of things about the human body that don't make a lot of sense from the standpoint of our present 'dignified' state.
For example, apocrine sweat glands produce pheromones. On the human body, these glands occur in the armpits, aerola of nipples, genitals and feet. Why feet? For a dog or some other mammal with a super keen sense of smell that goes around on all fours with its nose to the ground, it makes sense because it would facilitate tracking between members of the same species and help them get together.
But humans don't have a super keen sense of smell; we don't go around on all fours with our noses to the ground and we have more sophisiticated and dignified ways of hooking up. Apocrine glands are mostly an annoyance and the parts of the body where they're concentrated are the parts that we regularly scrub and deodorize so as not to offend others.
Or take conception for example. Most books on biology give the impression that sperm all make a mad dash to reach the egg. The realilty is only a fraction of sperm try to fertilize the egg. What the rest do is a subject of some debate, but a number of researchers are saying that they hang back for the express purpose of stopping the sperm of another male. The more promiscuous the species, the more pronounced this phenomenon is. It's very pronounced in primates.
-
jgnat
TD, I've been speculating how we play out on a macro scale, what our bodies do in the micro. That sperm strategy sounds an awful lot like football.
Similarly, our neurons operate in a decidedly democratic fashion. When it comes to sensory input, majority rules. We even play this out on the macro level, accepting the perception of the majority over our own senses.
Those regularly accessed pathways are reinforced, and unused ones die away.
I suspect also that in a way, we dance the dance of the neurons; sometimes ordered, and other times chaotic.
