The watchtower is making some dangerous enemies

by 20yearfader 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  frankiespeakin

  Also we must look at the type of Deity the Governing Body worship, and whole heartedly endorse: Jehovah, now Jehovah is the type of deity that requires "exclusive devotion" and gets extremely jealous of other gods, even if they are just made of wood overlaid with gold or idols. He also promises to bring an end to the world and only a few JWs are gonna make it alive through the wholesale slaughter, and at the same time this is to be done LOVINGLY for the good of mankind(that worship exclusively him) because if he didn't it's assumed the human race just wipe itself out in the future because they don't follow jehovah and this world(all the governments) are under Satan's control.

  And the Governing Body have repeatedly brought out Jehovah the deity they worship will be acting in complete harmony with LOVE when he destroys all who don't worship him or never heard of him. They are some twisted fucks for beleiving this and teaching this, and so all that except these teachings of the Governing Body get twisted in their thinking as well, so it should come as no surprise that they would beleive beating the crap out of their children to keep them listening and paying attention is showing them tough LOVE, all because they have accepted that "God Is Love" as taught by the Governing Body. Not every parent would do this some natural parenting skills will keep them in check while others because of this mental distorted view of LOVE will take it to the limit to going so far as to litterally beat the child to dead. I look at much of the teachings of the Governing Body as "mental viruses" some people show minor severe symtoms, some minor or none.
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  steve2

  steve2 this concept of revenge is not only an american thing,this friend of mine has the know how to make his fantasy a reality.You i take it weren't a born in that was subject to physical and mental abuse you need to get down off of your high horse and see the world through our eyes.I can add up the sum of my life and see the common denominator in my life and many of the born ins of my generation and clearly blame the wt and there policies that our parents took to the extreme.That is one of the reasons so many of my generation have rejected religion and carry so much emotional baggage in there lives.Also men don't coo maybe you have forgotten that.

  20yearfader, I actually share more of your concerns than you may have assumed.

  I deplore parental abuse and am personally very judgemental towards any parent, caregiver or other person who uses any kind of physical violence against children.

  Where you and I may part company is the extent to which we hold parents accountable and responsible for their physical violence against children versus "blaming" their religious beliefs.

  I do not believe that the Watchtower has ever endorsed the level of violence against children illustrated in this thread - ever.

  Furthermore, I do not believe that Watchtower "policies" on disciplining children turn non-punitive parents into punitive parents. There is the same "spread" or variability of disciplining styles in kingdom halls that you would find anywhere in its "host" country - which is not to sanction that variability but to highlight parental disciplining variability.

  Yes, "Bible-believing" religious groups have been at the forefront of defending parents' "right" to hit their children. Yes, it gives already-violent parents the perfect excuse to hit - and keep hitting - their children. Be that as it may, when a parent is facing criminal charges for hitting their children, no court lets them off because their religious beliefs "made" them hit the children. Secular law overrides parenting style every time.

  I go right back to the point I made earlier: Violent parents are violent with or without their religion's "backup". I do not think we further the argument by portraying parents as "victims" themselves of Watchtower policies on child-rearing.

  Case in point: I was raised by 2 very loving JW parents. Still I - and my parents and siblings - observed firsthand periodic deplorable acts of violence in kingdom halls against children. In each of those acts, not only did the elders step in and make it clear the parents' behavior was unacceptable but so did others in the Hall, my dear mother included. In fact, my mother went further: She also believed that parents who hit their children were often under tremendous stress to keep their children quiet during meetings so she and other sisters often stepped in and offered to help families.

  Moreover, my parents were seen as "fine examples" of parenting. Note: my parents seldom if ever used "the rod" on us; considering I was raised in the late 1950s and 1960s, that speaks volumes to the ethos among the Witnesses. If the Watchtower was promulgating such parental violence, why were my parents seen as such "fine examples"? Why did the elders welcome my mother's and other sisters' offers to help families at the kingdom hall?

  However, my mother and father - and indeed their own JW parents - were also very, very clear about parental accountability and responsibility. It is nonsense to portray the Watchtower as sanctioning violence towards children that is out of kilter with secular laws and policies on safe and responsbile child rearing. it is also nonsense because, having been raised as Witness, I know the huge variability in parenting styles was not a result of Watchtower "policies" and violence towards children of the violent level illustrated in this thread would have been deplored by the organization.
• 

  Tylinbrando

  *** w739/15p.557WhatKindofTrainingDoChildrenNeed?***

  21 God is man’s Creator. There is no higher authority. His Word is very clear on the matter. It says: "Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from Sheol [the grave] itself." (Prov. 23:13, 14) The life of the child is at stake. If he is allowed to pursue a wrong course, it will lead to his own unhappiness and eventual death outside God’s favor. Thus the Bible says: "The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline." (Prov. 13:24) It shows real love on the part of a parent to do whatever he can to correct his child, including spanking him. This is God’s way. "For whom Jehovah loves," the scripture says, "he disciplines; in fact, he scourges [whips or lashes] every one whom he receives as a son.

  ***w541/15p.54DiscipliningChildrenforLife***

  Sometimes, though parents give the proper instruction and set the proper example, children refuse to obey. That brings us to discipline, and forces a facing of that hotly controversial question: to spank or not to spank.

  2 Many child psychologists put a "hands off" sign on children, as did one who said: "Do you mothers realize that every time you spank your child you show that you are hating your child?" Jehovah says: "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him." A spanking may be a lifesaver to a child, for Jehovah says: "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. If you beat him with the rod you will save his life from Sheol." Again, "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts." It is Jehovah who can peer into the innermost parts of men and children, and at one time, typical of our day, he did this and saw: "The inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up." The remedy? "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him."

  ***g795/8p.27ShouldChildrenBeSpanked?***

  But does loving discipline include a parent’s use of spanking? According to God’s Word, it definitely can, whenthespankingisanexpressionofandinamannerconsistentwithlove. Consider these verses from the inspired book of Proverbs:

  "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." (22:15) "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." (23:13, 14) "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (13:24)—NewInternationalVersion.

  While such references to the "rod" could cover various forms of discipline from parents, physical chastisement is certainly included. Whether they do it with the hand, a wooden ruler or some other type of appropriate "rod," parents are authorized by God to use spanking in lovingly disciplining their children.
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  problemaddict

  Tell him to come here. Murder is wrong, and his actions would be terrible for him and others.

  We can help him get through it emotionally. I am sure he was just venting to a friend, but its really important to make sure things like this never escalate.
• 

  steve2

  It is a cheap shot to copiously quote from Watchtower publications from earlier decades when even secular literature endorsed far more physically robust methods of child discipline. It is "easy" to cherry pick instances of earlier endorsements of more coercive styles of parenting when these sorts of parenting styles were relatively common in even secular societies.

  I remember school teachers who routinely caned unruly students, some young kids barely in the first few years of schooling. Teachers often loudly threatened unruly students with "six of the best" meaning, 6 strikes on the trousered buttocks with the cane. Boys - and sometimes girls too - went home with reddened strike marks and bruising on their buttocks and upper legs. Often the "victims" could not sit without pain for days, if not weeks. We observed it happen in class; hell, I was on the receiving end of the cane at times. Our parents knew it. Other teachers knew it.

  No one protested becasue it was accepted as the then social norm.

  Looking back, it was abusive - but it was in accord with the accepted norm of the time we lived in. To cite caning of school children as an example of abuse to currently protest about is to aim an arrow at a very convenient target and miss the context of its occurrence. It is tedious at best, malicious at worst.

  By today's social awareness and higher regard for the rights of children, we rightly condemn the practice of caning children - and it has thankfully been banned in schools - well, in New Zealand it has. It is now a criminal offence for a school teacher to physically hit a child. About time too.

  To try to paint a distorted picture implying the Watchtower was somehow more uniquely endorsing of abusive parenting simply reveals how intent some critics are in damning the Watchtower with anything they can throw in its path.

  Whenever I read ex-JWs writing about how abusive their JW parents were, I automatically think, "Hmmmm, the world is full of adults looking back into their childhoods and trying to find someone or something to blame for current problems". I am so over children raised in the JW religion dramatizing their treatment as children in a way that implies the Watchtower is responsible. Hey, crybaby adults who were raised in the JW religion, get a life: How your parents treated you is their responsibility; they are accountable. That they "used" the religion to sanction their cruel practices towards you is inexcusable and does not absolve them one little bit from facing the music and being held accountable.
• 

  talesin

  Steve2

  It is an even cheaper shot to tell someone who has been severely beaten, with bruises and welts (easily hidden by clothing) on their legs and buttocks as a child, that this was the societal norm.

  I don't know where YOU grew up, but my classmates at school did not get beaten with belts by their parents. Their MINISTERS and RABBIS did NOT "exhort" their parents to beat them in the church bathroom for being squirmy ---- no they had SUNDAY SCHOOLS.

  CANING? Where did you grow up? The Philippines? Or a British boarding school? (Yes, I had a friend who went to one, and it was quite brutal - I am not being sarcastic, Steve2.)

  It's so wrong to try to marginalize others' experiences.

  Dunno what personal 'buttons' this issue is pushing for you, but I suggest you look inside to see why it does.

  tal
• 

  steve2

  Dear tal, this is what happened to me at school and my class mates. It is not a cheap shot. it was the norm of the day. I'm glad it no longer happens. Please read my post again: I was not refering to what happens in the kingdom halls but what routinely happened in schools in New Zealand, Australia, Britain and I daresay North America during the 1960s when I went to school.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Steve,

  ****Whenever I read ex-JWs writing about how abusive their JW parents were, I automatically think, "Hmmmm, the world is full of adults looking back into their childhoods and trying to find someone or something to blame for current problems". I am so over children raised in the JW religion dramatizing their treatment as children in a way that implies the Watchtower is responsible. Hey, crybaby adults who were raised in the JW religion, get a life: How your parents treated you is their responsibility; they are accountable. That they "used" the religion to sanction their cruel practices towards you is inexcusable and does not absolve them one little bit from facing the music and being held accountable.****

  It important for one doing a self-evaluation to trace things back to childhood to understand themselve, I would not be quick to think the motive is they are trying to pass the blame there could be a variety of motives lots of them have to do with psychology. It is important that look seriously into the topic of how we discipline children and the effect it has on them psychologically and what could be the outcomes of treating children the way the bible says to.

  The effects of the Watchtowers teachings has effect too on how parents raise their children and the type of discipline they recieve. They are all related we can't compartmentalize these things as if they don't exist.
• 

  clarity

  I had 3 children when I started 'studying' with the witnesses...

  and I never spanked them before that time .... until I was urged to

  disipline like this & had it reinforced at pretty much every mtg....>

  >

  "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." (22:15) "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." (23:13, 14) "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (13:24)—NewInternationalVersion.

  While such references to the "rod" could cover various forms of discipline from parents, physical chastisement is certainly included. Whether they do it with the hand, a wooden ruler or some other type of appropriate "rod," parents are authorized by God to use spanking in lovingly disciplining their children.

  >

  Wish I had never known those people!

  clarity
• 

  steve2

  Frankiespeakin there is a world of difference between looking at one's formative years to better understand factors that shaped personality, beliefs and behavioral patterns and looking for who to blame and damn. I see an awful lot of blame and finger-jabbing in the posts. I simply lay the blame where it literally belongs: at the hands of the abusive parents. What nonsense to blame the religion - in a sick mimicking of the limp religionist's perfect excuse: "The Devil made me do it" - and this from grown men and women!

  Clarity - let me guess that quote is not from a recent Watchtower publication is it? social attitudes to the treatment of children have undergone huge changes in more recent decades. Huge. Also, if the Witnesses "urgings" were so repugnant to you, as a "loving" parent you would have simply refused, wouldn't you. At some level, back then you knew that the Witnesses approach was not unique to them. Many parents, religious and non-religious, look back and are appalled at what they routinely subjected their children to - yet AT THE TIME it was socially endorsed. Clarity, let me also guess: Even though you feel bad about what you were urged to do, you didn't actually physically abuse your children or inflict long-lasting damage on them, did you? If you did, self-appraisal rather than finger jabbing at the Watcthtower is in order.