What is faith?

by Seraphim23 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  Seraphim23

  Faith is one of those words that is hard to pin down what it means. Does it mean hope? Well Paul listed hope as a separate thing in Corinthians from faith, although he does list them together as though having certain things in common. Does it mean belief; but belief in what? Is it belief in a person or the claim of the existence of the supernatural or metaphysical world? I can believe that other humans exist but I might not trust their motives if I knew some of them. In some ways the only thing anyone can absolutely know is that ‘I think therefor I am`. One’s own consciousness! Yet we have people in the world trying to convince some that even that is only an illusion, or that our own consciousness is real but all else could be an illusion, as it the matrix type of world view. This whole subject really gets into deep issues.

  Some people who tell us that the physical senses are the only guide to truth will also say that consciousness is an illusion, however as a result of that they are really denying the concept of truth itself as a real thing, because truth is not a physical object and only exists in the abstract if real, which they tell us does not exist. It sometimes gets even worse than that, because even the evidence of the senses is said to be fallible and untrustworthy. Often this argument of untrustworthy senses is used to cast doubt on those who claim supernatural experience, or the witnessing it via their senses. However the alternative explanation is a materialist scientific world view, but this too is derived from those same infallible senses which would cast that into doubt in the same way. This criticism however is not accepted as valid by the materialist position because of the mathematical consistency of such physical theories with mathematics, as well as such theories internal consistency with themselves and other theories. The problem with this rejection is that mathematics itself does not exist in the real world, as its domain is that of the mind only. Also the apparent internal consistency of a theory with itself is only ever understood as consistent in the mind of understanding, as is all understanding whatsoever. One needs consciousness to have a mind that can understand what the mind is doing. Yet the materialist position, if held to be universally true says that the mind is itself only physical, thus an illusion.

  So what is faith? I’m not totally sure but everyone seems to have it weather atheist or not.
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  Terry

  The professor walks into the class room and places a large covered urn on his desk.

  "Students, I want you to observe what I shall now proceed to do."

  The professor opens the lid of the urn and reaches inside. He pulls out a white marble and places it in a large glass jar for everyone to see.

  "Students, continue watching, please."

  The professor repeats his reach and extraction of a white marble. One after the other until 10 have been removed from the urn.

  "Now students I am going to ask you individually to make a decision. When you believe you know what I have in this urn and you are fairly certain of it I want you to stand up next to your desk."

  The professor continued reaching into the urn and removing white marbles until all but 3 students were standing beside their desks.

  The professor paused and addressed the still-seated students: "What is your problem? You think certainty is some kind of virtue?"

  The professor pulled yet another and another white marble from the urn until the 3 hold-outs were standing sheepishly beside their desk.

  The professor paused again.

  "If any of you wish to change your mind you can sit."

  Then, he reached into the urn and pulled a----BLACK marble!

  The class sat down immediately

  The next 25 marbles were white.

  The professor stopped and asked, "Hasn't it become obvious yet what is in this urn? If you decide YOU KNOW stand beside your desk as I asked before."

  He continued to pull white marbles out of the urn.

  Soon, all students were again standing.

  The Professor smiled and said: "It is good you are able to predict, be wrong and then modify your opinion. All of you standing now believe you have a good idea of what this urn contains, I see?" Students nod.

  He continues and reaches into the urn and out comes a RED MARBLE followed by 4 white marbles 2 black marbles and a purple marble.

  The students groan and laugh and take their seats again----except for one young lady.

  The Professor looks at her, "So you are the only one sure of what you believe is inside this urn?"

  She nods and half-whispers, "Yes, sir."

  The Professor shrugs and smiles......and continues. The next pulls are a set of green dice, blue dice, red dice and a golf ball!

  The red-faced girl student collapses into her chair amid laughter and cat calls.

  The Professor faces the class and lifts the urn and turns it upside down and a mousetrap falls out along with several BB's and a hair scrunchy.

  The students laugh and applaud riotously!

  "Students, you were wise to predict according to a trend and wise to change your mind but, safe to say, you were never certain of reality even when you assumed you were."

  He walks to the front of the class room and leans against the demonstration table.

  Unless and until we KNOW for certain EVERYTHING we cannot actually know for certain.

  But, we can be confident of trends until those trends are interrupted by changes in our model.

  What you all experienced here today was SCIENCE. It is a roller coaster. It is riding the changes and plotting the trends without

  succumbing to the temptation to be CERTAIN while you are being confident."

  So, what is faith? Is it taking a stand and betting everything your best guess matches reality?

  Reality is infinite and certainty is a poor estimate, indeed.
• 

  Este

  I look at human existence and see all of the other living beings out there. There is no real explanation of our existence other than that GOD created us. So I have a basis for my belief in GOD. Without something to back it up it would be difficult to have faith in something. If you wife returned home everyday from work at 5:00 P.M. you can put faith in her doing the same thing the next day. I act upon my faith and I am rewarded for my faith....

  E.
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  Seraphim23

  InterestingTerry. I liked the illustration. Although I guess it is only science if it deals with the physical reality.
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  Vanderhoven7

  Saving faith, in the biblical sense, is not something one exercises. It is revelation.
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  Seraphim23

  Vanderhoven7 doesn’t that assume that revelation is without ambiguity? The Samuel in the temple incident seemed subject to misinterpretation when God called out to him; Gods voice was mistaken by Samuel several times as the high priests. Also faith itself seems to have been exercised almost every time a miracle was granted from Jesus. The ten lepers had to start making their way to the priest in order to be pronounced clean, before the healing occurred, which denoted belief that what Jesus said would happen would indeed happen. Also in comparison to the ten lepers account, the gospels note that Jesus could not do miracles everywhere due to a lack of faith. In these cases belief seems to be the meaning of faith.
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  Phizzy

  Both belief and trust are good words to start to define "Faith" as used in the NT.

  James' teaching that "Faith without works is dead" is powerful for Chrisitians because it shows that true christian faith is not merely belief, nor merely trust, but that christian faith is active, whereas belief and trust on their own can be merely passive.

  The active Chrisitan faith says James, is marked by caring for "Widows and Orphans", true charitable works expressed toward the needy regardless of their faith.

  Something the WT never does.
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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi Seraphim

  Doesn’t that assume that revelation is without ambiguity?

  It took a while for young Samuel to grasp who was calling...but the message about Eli was as clear as the message to every prophet of God.

  The saving faith revelation is essential revelation from God to the human spirit of God's grace. The content of that revelation is best expressed in the hymn: My faith Has Found A Resting Place.

  Try:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoKUqWsFik
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  Seraphim23

  Without meaning to sound flippant Vanderhoven7, I hate religious songs as they tend to cloud my critical thinking ability.

  Part of the message one could argue included the calling as well as the message. If the bible itself is deemed revelation it also must be, according to your logic clear, but that is patently not the case. It is only fundamentalists who claim it is written for all to understand because it is from God. However I don’t agree that it is clear in such a fashion.

  Phizzy I like your thought.
• 

  jgnat

  English is tricky. I believe two separate concepts are covered by this word. Faith can also mean reasonable certainty, as Terry illustrated. Mixing up these two meanings can lead to some pretty ridiculous assertions; for instance, "faith" in a worldwide flood.

  Noun

  1. Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
  2. Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

  So a Christian dedicated to "...faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Paul, Hebrews 11:1 ESV) may confuse a spiritually apprehended faith with absolute certainty. Any doubts would be swept away in fear that faith is somehow compromised.

  I am fascinated by the implications of the study noted below. " The study also found that devout Christians and nonbelievers use the same brain regions to judge the truth of religious and nonreligious propositions." As in the prepositions "The sky is blue" and "God is love" would be judged as true or not by the same region of the brain.

  http://www.semel.ucla.edu/news/09/sep/30/where-religious-belief-disbelief-meet-brain