Why do elders thump the table?

by ozziepost 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  ozziepost

  Mrs Ozzie and I had a very pleasant visit yesterday to a lady who has plenty of questions as she seeks the truth about 'the troof'.

  She told us that as a young 18 year old she commenced Regular Pioneering and has many memories of her time in the Borg. Now in her early 60s she has many questions. Her well-marked and well-used NWT bears testimony to her earnestly seeking of the Truth.

  She told us that not too long ago she invited the Presiding Overseer and the visiting C.O. around to her house so she could enquire more from them. As she asked them a question the C.O. stormed, thumping the lady's kitchen table "Don't you believe this is the Faithful & Discreet Slave? If you don't, we don't want you in the organisation!"

  Needless to say, she still has questions but is now seeking answers from a wider range of opinions.

  This attitude as displayed by C.O. Bill Hosking who is well known here in Oz as a C.O. and D.O. is not isolated, it seems.

  It brought to mind an experience Mrs Ozzie herself had not too long ago where she asked a group of Bethel elders "Where does it say that in Bible?" She was asking about something that is in a Watchtower but there is no scriptural backing for the WTS edict. The response? A thump on the bound volume and the retort "Don't you believe this is the Faithful & Discreet Slave?" Needless to say, Mrs Ozzie was assisted by these men's actions and words to start to seek the REAL truth.

  What is it about this 'thumping with clenched fists' by the elders? Is it any wonder that here in the land of Oz the matter of having "shepherding calls" is viewed as a joke by the R&F. Shepherding calls are nothing more than occasions to browbeat the sheep. Why do elders feel so sensitive about any question, even from genuine enquirers? Is it perhaps that, in their hearts, they know they're on shaky ground? And so they react with shouts and clenched fists thumping on tables. Berating the enquirer comes easier than teaching, it seems.

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "If our hopes for peace are placed in the hands of imperfect people, they are bound to evaporate."

  
  - Ron Hutchcraft Surviving the Storms of Stress
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  Pathofthorns

  Most questions a JW will raise honestly are welcome. They can usually find some answer in a bound volume that will make the publisher go away.

  There are certain questions that raise red flags though. If you do not accept their token answers and go away, or if you are determined to not really be asking out of ignorance, their willingness to "help" you quickly turns to anger and accusation and questions over motive.

  The pounding on the table or raising their voice is an intimidation tactic IMO. They do these things when they cannot logically defend their viewpoint. They might even call it "righteous indignation" when they feel the questions are "apostate". After their stupid display they tend to just leave because there is nothing more they can say or do.

  I wish they could see themselves for the jerks and cowards they are.

  Path
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  neyank

  Path,
  I second that.

  neyank
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  Prisca

  For some reason, the table-thimping and the self-righteous indignation reminds me of how abusers usually blame the victim. In this case, the elders are blaming the questioner for not being able to blindly follow the WTS mindset like they do.

  Due to the elders' Pharisical treatment of the flock, the Society is losing many of it's brightest and sincerest.
• 

  Nemesis

  Ozziepost,

  Thanks for your post, it reminded me of the brutal treatment of a female witness friend’s story that she related to me a few years ago—she’s still a JW at present but I’m trying to get her out.

  She has had some awful bad luck in life, her daughter had drowned in a boating accident, and not long after [within a year] her husband, a non-believer, had died of a heart attack. She was left as the sole provider of three children, and was desperately trying to cope with life and her grief at what had happened. Along came the CO for a shepherding call, unbeknownst to him, he did not know who she was or her situation. When he arrived with an elder, the elder explained the situation to him. He then turned and left the kitchen where they were all having a coffee, and said loudly to the elder in the corridor: “I don’t have time to waste on grieving widows, I have more important duties to be attending to.” He then left without saying goodbye, and the elder with him tried to explain that “we” had to go because of other calls that had to be fitted in—the elder with the CO didn’t realise she had heard every word. They both left, leaving her in a tortured state wondering why God had abandoned her, and what she had done wrong.

  It’s amazing after such brutal treatment people can still carry on as if they must have somehow asked for that, or displeased God, so they carry on in the organisation and get hurt more and more—the whole thing is so depressing. I’m trying to get her out now, but she keeps going back in to ‘auto Watchtower defence mode’, which is making it all more difficult for reality to shine through.
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  NeonMadman

  "But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "
  --Matthew 24:48-51

  Tom

  "At midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew go out and round up everyone who knows more than they do"
  --Bob Dylan
• 

  CornerStone

  Hello All,

  I liken the elder "thumping" reaction to what happens when you TRY to logicaly discuss the trinity doctrine with a true believer. One seems to get a lot of raised voices and repeatted afformations as to the trinity's truthfulness but VERY little directly answered questions.

  I guess there are certain subjects that cannot be answered logicaly but must be believed in to keep cohesion within the group/collective.
  This 'reaction' also necessatates lableing or 'marking' the questioning individual, intimidating and isolating them to KEEP QUITE!!!

  As peaceloving as I am, there is the thought of 'attending' a judicial cm where I follow three elders into a back room. I stop, turn around, and LOCK the door. Then I take off my jacket, then my shirt. I then kick the neatly rowed foldup chairs outta my way. And much to the looks of shock and horror on their selfrightous faces I begin to "THUMP" a melodic rhapsody on each of their heads. The precussionary harmony would be soothingly delightful.

  CornerStone
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  Prisca

  at the CO's brutal treatment of the poor widow.

  Guess he'd forgotten what was said at James 1:27 -

  "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress."
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  Frenchy

  There are a great many elders that are strictly top water stuff. They have learned how to use the index and that’s about it. If you ask something that is not easily referenced with a bout a hundred Watchtower articles, then they get very nervous. (They have just peered into the depths below and they have seen great big monsters lurking down there!) These guys instinctively know that they are shallow but resent it terribly when forced to confront their inadequacies.

  Then there are the deep water swimmers that have seen (and skirted) those great big denizens of the deep (Why does God permit evil…really; Why has the Society made so many mistakes if it is led my the holy spirit?; Why are there so many stupid elders if they are all appointed by the holy spirit?;Why is the Bible so cryptic?; etc.) These guys know about these monsters of the deep but they do not want to confront them. They are looking for the answers themselves and when they are confronted with these questions by others it just reminds them of their own doubts. When they can’t convince others by the publications, it makes them angry because they realize down deep inside that the answers they are giving are wrong. Instead of being angry at the source of the problem they strike out at the much more vulnerable publisher in front of them.
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  ozziepost

  Nemesis,

  G'day and thanks for your sharing.

  I'm sure there are many, many examples just like we've documented. The wickedness arises by the Borg not acknowledging these terrible events.

  I recall one time we arrived at a friend's house in a country town many hundreds of kilometres from where we lived. It was lunch time and shortly after we arrived, the D.O. accompanied by the C.O. and their wives arrived for lunch. It was the C.O. visit in my friends' congregation.

  Mrs Ozzie and I were in our very casual travelling clothes and so the travelling overseers didn't recognise us.

  However, we saw at first hand the humiliation of our friend's wife by the overseers as they criticised everything about the meal placed before them and the lack of modern facilities for their refreshment. We felt terrible!

  A few weeks later I met the D.O. at the platform at a Circuit assembly as we were both delievering talks that day. The D.O. was all over me like a rash! You'd have thought I was the greatest thing since sliced bread!

  Guess what I thought? You guessed it - Hypocrite!

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "If our hopes for peace are placed in the hands of imperfect people, they are bound to evaporate."

  
  - Ron Hutchcraft Surviving the Storms of Stress