Now there is one genuinely mentally diseased apostate.
Evil too (militantly ignorant and malignantly self-righteous).
An eternal Pharisee, from his father the devil.
Anthony Morris The 3rd Talks About Human Hot Dogs At Armageddon, There Will Be No Picnic For Survivors
by frankiespeakin 110 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jhine
Thank you AnnOMaly ,
your explanation does not make sense with what was said in the public study book about judgement at that study . I know who is right ! The book said that everyone will have a chance to turn back to Jehovah
and repent and be part of the paradise Earth . It seems that that does not include those who have been roasted , will that group include the clergy of Christendom , for whom I did read that there is a worse puishment awaiting ?
I couldn't figure out how there could be a worse punishment as I understood that ONLY death awaited those who disobeyed the org !! A nice quiet finishing of life , not an incineration on a toasting fork .
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AnnOMaly
This is how it works. In this 'time of the end,' before the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, the good news will be preached in all the earth for a witness (yes, I know there'll be sections of the planet's population who don't get witnessed to, but these are details, God is just and compassionate, etc.). This is the window of opportunity for people to repent and turn to Jehovah. Those who do not, and who live to the time of the Big A, will be destroyed at the Big A.
AMIII was painting a picture of violent destruction at God's/Jesus' hands - biblical images, fire and brimstone kind of thing. See some examples of Armageddon Art.
HOWEVER, Judgment Day spans the 1000 year reign after the Big A. During that time, those who are resurrected (i.e. those who died BEFORE Armageddon, not as a result of it*) are given a chance to turn to Jehovah and continue living on the restored Paradise earth. Once they pass the final test, it's a done deal.
*w67 10/1 p. 607 Preach Release to Babylon’s Captives
What does this mean for Jehovah’s witnesses today? That there is much work for them to do. They must not only help persons to sever their connections with Babylon the Great but, by making return visits, by conducting Bible studies with them and by inviting them to associate with the Witnesses at the Kingdom Halls, help them to take their stand for Jehovah God and his Son, Christ the King. That means much work, hard work, dependable work, unselfish work!—1 Cor. 15:58.
It also means urgency. The end of this system of things is drawing on apace! All those destroyed with Babylon the Great or later at Armageddon cannot hope for a resurrection.
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jhine
thank you Ann (may I call you Ann ?) you have made things a lot clearer for me . When I have asked about my fate as a died in the wool Trinitarian I have only had fudged answers , like " well we cannot know Jehovah's mind and His judgements " Obviously they did not want to tell me that if Armageddon comes tomorrow I will be on the big skewer ! At my age I would be a bit tough , though plenty to share . Also the booklet that they used in the study with my friend gives a lovely rosy glow to the whole subject , which I did suspect was not the story in the KHs .
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*lost*
Read an interesting article.
The Parousia misconception ? Does the Wt have this oh so wrong.
'' ... one will be taken...''
People have the thought that it will be the 'faithful' that will be taken, thus surviviors.
Reality - the ones taken are the ones for destruction. 'Faithful' are left behind.
Interesting thought.
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AnnOMaly
Deleted. See below
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AnnOMaly
jhine, yes by all means call me Ann. They're bound to fudge it. It's an uncomfortable 'truth.' They may themselves even feel ambiguous about the wholesale slaughter of 'nice non-JWs' like yourself. Naturally, they do not want to alienate any prospective converts either ;-) This is why the official statement (FAQs) on jw.org is so ... carefully worded.
Do You Feel That You Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?
No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation. In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22,27.
This will be enough to reassure the curious non-JW, but the categories mentioned here, those who have opportunity for salvation are:
- non-JWs who lived in past centuries who will get a resurrection;
- those currently living who begin to serve God (meaning, become associated with or baptized as JWs).
I'm sure you can easily spot which category isn't discussed. Even though it is not JWs' job to judge who will or won't get saved, other statements in the literature do make those judgments.
Just a couple of examples out of many:
w94 3/1 p. 9 par. 7 Jehovah’s Judgment Against False Teachers
7 Like the false prophets of Jerusalem, Christendom’s clergy also walk in falsehood, spreading apostate doctrines, teachings not found in God’s Word. What are some of these false teachings? The immortality of the soul, the Trinity, purgatory, and a hellfire to torment people eternally. They also tickle the ears of their hearers by preaching what people like to hear. They chant that no calamity faces Christendom because she has God’s peace. But the clergy are speaking “the vision of their own heart.” It is false. Those who believe such lies are being poisoned spiritually. They are being misled to their destruction!
w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium
Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4)
Now, to be fair, JWs will say that there may well be exceptions, where Jehovah and Jesus save individuals outside of the Organization, but you've seen enough, I think, to see what the official position is.
Btw, what book/booklet are you studying?
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jhine
It isn't actually my study , My friend who before her husband retired was lonely , because of some problems a lot of people avoided her , although she is lovely . So some years ago now she started letting a couple of JWs come to her house on Fridays to study . She just liked the company and never had any intention of converting . She was brought up Cof E . When I found out about the studies I did council caution and put her wise to some of the org. tricks and lies . She wouldn't let me near the two ladies for some time in case I upset them ! She is quite soft hearted and although she didn't agree with what they were saying (for herself , not just because of my words ) she knew that probably I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut .!
However she met some other JWs ,who sat in when one of the principals was away, who she did not like so much and realised some of the arrogance and non love in the org. and one day when I had called at her door to enquire after her health because she had not been well it was just as the two ladies had arrived and she said something like " oh be buggered if you upset them , come in and sit with us and have a cuppa " well I have sat in on most Fridays now for a couple of years . I do not make any attempt to hide my feelings about the org. and do occasionally challenge what is said in the study booklets , but to their credit the two listen, go away ,look up , in JW literature of course , and come back with an answer . Though a couple of times only have conceded that I could have a point . That of course does not change their loyalty !
They use the studies in the Watchtower and Awake ( public ) publications , though cus going is slow with my friend , and I do sometimes hi-jack the discussions , they are using ones from a few months ago I think . I only know that the one used the other day had a quite large article , meant for public study , about judgement , What it is , when it will happen , how it will affect us etc. With the usual illustrations and questions at the end .
Next Friday I will find out exactly the one used and let you know . I am most grateful for your imput and information .
Are you in or out of the org ? I ask because from my observations on this site it seems that many who realise TTATT especially for themselves seem to get very bitter , suspicious ( which you can understand ) and many it seems to me lose faith altogether . I do therefore wonder whether it is useful to try to awake some to TTATT . Are they better off for knowing ?
I would certainly continue to stop people from joining , but when I read how the org. has screwed with peoples minds and how some lose everything , like Grace , I wonder on the ethics of giving someone knowledge that they can never unknow and which will alter their lives , maybe not always for the better . Janet
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hamsterbait
Who could love and respect a "GOD" who is such a sadistic psychopath that he would subject us to that?
A homicidal maniac who will kill little children for "playing" with themselves.
SICK and disgusting.
HB
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AnnOMaly
jhine,
The two ladies sound very nice, sincere. Not only are they company for your friend, but they have a great way of getting in some easy field service time for themselves - 'sit-down-with-a-cup-of-tea' calls are like gold! It's good that they listen and look up answers to you and your friend's questions. I hope they don't start to pressure her, though.
Me? I'm 3rd generation. I and my hubby have known TTATT for many years, but mainly due to family considerations (some elderly family) we have not wanted to rock the boat too much. We have been very slowly, but progressively, disengaging from the JW routine. Changes in circumstances in the past few months have enabled us to accelerate that disengagement.
I think some JWs are better off remaining JWs. They have trusted for too long, invested/sacrificed too much or are so tied to the JW community that discovering they'd been had would destroy them - they'd find it too traumatic rebuilding their lives and beliefs from scratch. IOW, they're too institutionalized. Besides, they can only receive that knowledge when they are at least half-ready to accept it, otherwise the shutters come down, they get all defensive and/or lash out at you. Of course, we can flag up discrepancies and hope their mental cogs start turning, but it can't be forced. Regarding your two JW ladies, and speaking from my own experience with 'difficult' householders, they will be learning a lot from the challenges you put to them. You never know what will stick in their minds or what will germinate later on.