A GB member brags about being in Vietnam? Pretty surreal. I think he needs therapy or sumthin.
Anthony Morris The 3rd Talks About Human Hot Dogs At Armageddon, There Will Be No Picnic For Survivors
by frankiespeakin 110 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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MrFreeze
Yeah, I'll describe, in detail, all the gore that surrounds war. But don't watch violent movies.
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frankiespeakin
AM#3 is funny he talks about how jehovah is full of tender mercies and love, and then expounds on the need to be busy preaching corporation end time propaganda, because he's seen what happens to burning human flesh at Veitnam and that he is prepared for all the human carnage but it is going to be numbing.
Listening to him talk I get the impression that he can't string a bunch of words together and make a coherent thought even in a well prepared talk like this one. I think he is very incoherrent in his thinking as well probably because he got Compartmentalization going on big time in his mind. Very incoherrent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_(psychology)
Psychoanalytic views [ edit ]
Psychoanalysis considers that whereas isolation separates thoughts from feeling, compartmentalization separates different (incompatible) cognitions from each other. [ 2 ] As a secondary, intellectual defense, it may be linked to rationalization. [ 3 ] Related also is the phenomenon of neurotic typing, whereby everything must be classified into mutually exclusive and watertight categories. [ 4 ]
Otto Kernberg has used the term bridging interventions for the therapist's attempts to straddle and contain contradictory and compartmentalized components of the patient's mind. [ 5 ]
Vulnerability [ edit ]
Compartmentalization may lead to hidden vulnerabilities in those who use it as a major defence mechanism. [ 6 ]
Those suffering from borderline personality disorder will often divide people into all good versus all bad, to avoid the conflicts removing the compartments would inevitably bring, using denial or indifference to protect against any indications of contradictory evidence. [ 7 ]
Using indifference towards a better viewpoint is a normal and common example of this. It can be caused by someone having used multiple compartment ideals and having been uncomfortable with modifying them, at risk of being found incorrect. This often causes double-standards, and bias. [citation needed]
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jhine
Hi Ann ,
thanks for your answer , it is funny that you asked about pressure , my friend did say that one of the ladies , the brighter tack of the two , for want of a better description , has mentioned to my friend that it might be better if the studies continued with just her and my friend . As I said these studies have been going on for some years now and my friend is no nearer to going to a KH than she ever was . This is not because of me , she said from the beggining that she would not convert , but I suppose that they thought that they could win her over . Probably the lady B who mentioned this thinks that it is my influence that is keeping my friend away . Also the other lady R who is wonderful , but not the brightest star in the sky , is easily distracted by me and will go off on long tangents answering my questions so disrupting the flow of the studies .
I wondered if someone higher up is putting pressure on B as my friend has made no progress towards becoming a JW after all this time . I noticed just on another thread how visits by COs can cause panic if awkward questions may be asked . Am I putting 2+2 together and making 5 ?
With regards to people learning TTATT I struggle because being an Anglican I question whether JW theology is enough for salvation . YOu are still in to some extent so this is tricky but I do want to discuss this with someone "in the know " if I am being upsetting then tell me to back off and I will understand . Many of the ex JWs on the site are now atheists and do not have any sympathy with my line of thinking .It has just occured to me (der ) that I do not know your feelings on matters theological so I will shut up now .
Any suggestions or advice that you can give on TTATT would be appreciated Janet
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AnnOMaly
Hi Janet,
It's interesting that your friend has been called on for years. It's also curious that magazines are being studied rather than books. I'm wondering if she has already completed the prescribed What Does The Bible Really Teach? book. Or hasn't she even started it yet? You see, perpetual 'studies' (students) are not encouraged. The student has to show signs of making progress - certainly by the end of the Bible Teach book. What do I mean by progress? Well, the student has to be showing signs that she is accepting what she is learning, modifying her life accordingly, and perhaps attending at least some meetings. If not, then she is either dropped completely or becomes an occasional magazine route call. The long-term aim is always to bring somebody 'into the Truth,' forsaking any former religious ties they had, and be baptized as a JW.
Yes, it's probable that you are a diversion and upsetting the flow of the study. If it were me (putting on my JW hat for a moment), I would be suggesting you have your own separate Bible study rather than gatecrash your friend's all the time ;-) Your presence will be impeding your friend's progress with the JW ladies who will be wanting to have her all to themselves so they can get to work on her 'spiritual advancement.' You can see the psychological advantage that will give the two JW ladies. Your friend may be resolute about not converting, but the pressure or molding can be subtle and gradual, and suddenly one day she may find herself saying or doing something distinctively 'Witnessy.'
Don't worry about upsetting me. I have a thick skin. Is JW theology enough for salvation? Is ANY theology enough for salvation? Paul said that we see through a glass darkly and won't have complete knowledge until that which is perfect comes. Everybody's theology is screwed up somewhere. Anyway, doesn't salvation depend on faith in a person, his resurrection, and living a life consistent with that faith?
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jhine
Amen , Ann, I was worried about your reaction and thank God , really , for your thick skin ! I will get some more info and get back to you . Watch this space .
JANET
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jhine
Hi Ann , my friend did study the What Does The Bible Really Teach book at the start of her studies . The judgement study came from a Watchtower Learn From God's Word section . I do not know which Watchtower but one from this year I think . The two JWs could not make it this week and my friend did not the specific Watchtower at hand . They are using that section from the WT a lot in their studies .
Janet
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AnnOMaly
Hi Janet,
Was it this one? http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20120901/judgment-day/ You're right, it does give a "lovely, rosy glow" to the whole thing. The destruction part is confined to a short, last paragraph and obviously doesn't paint the picture of horror AMIII did to his audience.
So, are these articles supplementing or expanding on subjects discussed in the Bible Teach studies? IOW, is she still slowly going through the Bible Teach book? Or has she finished it, and the Watchtowers are filling in now? Just curious.
I'm assuming the JW ladies couldn't come Friday because they were attending their District Convention.
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jhine
Hi Ann , first of all appologies for the delay in getting back to you . For various reasons I do not get onto the site at the weekends . Yes that is the study that was used . My friend finished the Bible Teach book ages ago , as I said these two ladies have been coming for years , so they seem to be using the Watchtower studies to try to entice her . It seems that there has not long been a COs visit then B starts suggesting that only she and my friend study together , coincidence ? I presume that B logs her time with my friend and someone must be noticing that things are not progressing .
Ann you say that salvation depends upon faith in a person and I absolutly agree, that is not Watchtower doctrine is it ?. They say that Jesus is not the mediator between all men and God , only the 144,00.. I am right in saying that aren't I ? This is what bothers me when having this argument with myself about whether someone is better off knowing TTATT or not . I have felt that this is something that I have been meant to do , to try to shine a light on some of the dubious teachings of the org for JWs so that they can at last decide on being members while in possession of all the facts . JUst that reading some of the threads and seeing the damage done by the mind control tactics , which some never seem to shake off , it has given me a lot to think about . peoples whole lives (literally ) are at stake in one way or another .
Since realising TTATT how have you progressed spiritually ? Do you mind if I ask how you realised TTATT ?
I am really enjoying our discussions Janet
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AnnOMaly
first of all appologies for the delay in getting back to you
No problem.
My friend finished the Bible Teach book ages ago , as I said these two ladies have been coming for years , so they seem to be using the Watchtower studies to try to entice her .
OK, I see the kind of study/return visit she is now.
It seems that there has not long been a COs visit then B starts suggesting that only she and my friend study together , coincidence ?
Maybe. Maybe not. One of the ladies may have asked the CO for advice. Or she attended the CO's special meeting for pioneers (evangelists who do a set quota of hours) and how to get studies to progress may have been discussed.
you say that salvation depends upon faith in a person and I absolutly agree, that is not Watchtower doctrine is it ?
Yes and no. Watchtower doctrine is more faith in 1. Jehovah, 2. Jesus, and 3. God's earthly Organization. A different kind of 'trinity.'
They say that Jesus is not the mediator between all men and God , only the 144,00[0]. I am right in saying that aren't I ?
Technically, yes. However, I know some JWs who haven't realized this and have just taken the Scripture at face value.
I have felt that this is something that I have been meant to do , to try to shine a light on some of the dubious teachings of the org for JWs so that they can at last decide on being members while in possession of all the facts .
Go with your instincts (or where you feel the holy spirit is nudging you).
Since realising TTATT how have you progressed spiritually ?
At the beginning, it was like I had a new lease of spiritual life in a way. I was frenzied in re-educating myself about certain Bible doctrines and re-shaping my perspective on them. It was a roller-coaster. However, at the same time I've been in a spiritual limbo. I could not be part of another religious community to aid further spiritual growth and keep up the momentum. There is still a lot I need to re-evaluate. After so many years having the Bible and religion as my focus, I'm wanting (needing) to explore other subjects/interests in the world that I've never really bothered with before, so my feeling at the moment is just to put that intensive religious searching on the back-burner for a while - a rest from it for now.
Do you mind if I ask how you realised TTATT ?
It was lots of little things that accumulated until they reached critical mass. Too much to explain in one go. In short:
My hubby saw TTATT long before I did, but he kept a lid on it for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it would leak out but mostly I didn't 'get it.' Then we got the internet and there were some good JW discussions on controversial subjects (ah those were the days!). They got the gray matter working.
We were given a detailed medical directive form to fill out about our medical/end-of-life decisions which was supposed to be held by the doctor. I couldn't work out why opting to accept all or some blood fractions was scripturally better or worse than to refuse all blood products. I decided to prayerfully look at all the relevant Bible texts, pretending I knew nothing, no bias one way or the other, and after a couple of weeks mulling it over, came to the conclusion the Org was wrong in some areas about this.
As the turn of the millennium came and went, and having been told from infancy that Armageddon was imminent, imminent, imminent, I got the sneaking suspicion that JWs had gone wrong somewhere about the whole 1914/nature and timing of Jesus' 2nd coming/WT chronology thing. So that was another line of research I pursued and was when the toppling dominoes really started to gain speed. Many other JW distinctives quickly followed suit.
The most important doctrine to a JW (whether they are consciously aware of it or not) is the 1918/19 appointment of the 'faithful and discreet slave' of Matt. 24:45-47, when Jehovah/Jesus chose the remnant of the 144,000 class in the Watchtower organization as His exclusive channel of Truth. Now, as you may already know, much of the particulars of the doctrine have been turned on their heads within the past few months, but once that illusion goes in a JW's mind, it's game over.