Our local anointed Priest-King prophesied:
: The underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the Watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be Jehovah's organization.
Actually that's the underlying assumption of all reasonable persons about all groups that claim to speak for God, especially those that claim to be uniquely God's people. Seventh-Day Adventists, for instance, generally believe that they and they alone are "God's people". Their beliefs are very JW-like and so are many of their attitudes. But just as JWs will reject the claim of SDA's because of the many goofy things they teach and practice, so will reasonable persons reject the claim of JWs.
: That's why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that Jehovah's Witnesses are not who we say we are.
Stands to reason, doesn't it? Put more simply, people know that when an organization is screwy, dishonest or evil enough, it can't represent God.
The 64-dollar question is: Just how much is "enough"?
: Unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.
Yeah, like when a mother loses her child to the blood doctrine, only to find a little later that the Society has changed its little mind about the particular treatment the kid died for lack of. Little things like that.
: But, when faced with error or hypocrisy within the organization the question, though, ought to be: Does the mere existence of a potential stumbling block mean that the Jehovah's Witnesses do not have God's backing?
Of course it does -- as long as the "block" is big enough. Hypocritical JWs like you fail to understand that the very same criticisms you've long heaved at other religions often apply equally to yourselves, if not more. Other religions set forth false predictions and false teachings, and JWs condemn them heartily for it. JWs do the same and then excuse themselves with "it's only our minor imperfections." Hypocrites! You're like whitewashed graves!
: The only persons that can really answer that question are Jehovah and Christ.
No so. If you believe the Bible, then you must accept the Bible's simple admonitions such as at Matthew 7:15-20:
15 "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those men.
Here Jesus is telling his disciples that who can recognize "bad fruits"? Jehovah and Christ? Nope. The disciples. Because you yourself recognize that the JW organization has borne much "bad fruit", it is grossly hypocritical of you to fail to go along with the consequences of Jesus' simple admonition.
Note also that a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit. Because the JWs bear much "worthless fruit", they cannot be "a good tree" and therefore true Christians -- much less anyone else with any sense -- ought to put faith in them as "God's organization".
The Watchtower Society has killed the faith of hundreds of thousands and has taught and practiced such inane things that even such a dogged "defender of the faith" as Greg Stafford has recently stated outright that such things should not be in "Jehovah's organization". In the preface to his new book Three Dissertations on the Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses Stafford writes about why he wrote the book:
The concerns that motivated its creation are concerns over the treatment of people in the Jehovah's Witnesses' organization. No, it is not the treatment at the hands of some oppressive government. It is not even the treatment by various hostile or otherwise opposing religious groups. The treatment that is of concern to many Witnesses is that which comes from the leadership of this fine organization. By this I certainly do not mean to call to account all of the persons in positions of responsibility in the Watchtower organization. I am not even concerned about the majority of those who `take the lead' among Jehovah's Witnesses (Hebrews 13:7, 17). But those responsible for conscious-binding [sic] policy are presently in a position that is doing great harm to many in the organization and by their action or inaction they could do significant damage to the faith of many who look to them for guidance and direction in their Christian ministry.The Watchtower Society has many positive teachings and policies, several of which receive due attention in the pages that follow. But the structure of the organization is such that it has created an environment where error is not only tolerated, but in some cases it seems to be knowingly advanced at the expense of others. This is not only unacceptable in and of itself, but such actions or policies threaten to destroy or negatively affect all of the positive teachings that one might point to in defense of Jehovah's Witnesses...
No one human alive today is given authority by the Scriptures to require that others accept all of the different teachings of an organization in order to be considered a true Christian. A person's belief in the importance of God's name should not be affected by whether they accept or reject the Watchtower's doctrine concerning 1914 CE. And no Christian should feel they have to abandon faith in God and in the Bible simply because there may be a question about the Watchtower's blood policy. Yet, many Witnesses who doubt the correctness of certain Watchtower interpretations have subsequently lost their faith in clear Bible teachings, including God's name and identity. Or if they have not lost their faith then they may have lost their zeal in proclaiming what the Bible does clearly teach, because their faith in God and in his Word is so closely aligned with a belief in God's use of the Watchtower Society to dispense "food at the proper time" (Matthew 24:45-47).
When such doubts manifest themselves in one area of a person's faith, they can spread and infect all aspects of that faith. Since there is no outlet in the Watchtower organization to discuss doubts or express differences of opinion over what the Watchtower has deemed to be a sure biblical understanding, then any person who finds him- or herself in such a position is likely to either leave the organization in search of another or gradually disconnect from the organization's activities. This precarious position is partly due to the fact that Bible teachings which exist independently of the Watchtower are directly connected with acceptance of the "faithful and disreet slave" among Jehovah's Witnesses. So, if a Witness loses confidence in the "faithful slave" then his or her faith in basic Bible teachings may waver or falter altogether.
While Stafford does not come right out and say it, it's pretty obvious that he agrees with the most grievous of all criticisms voiced by critics: that JW leaders have set themselves in the seat of Jesus Christ. Sincere JWs who voice disagreement with JW leaders are summarily disfellowshipped or declared disassociated and shunned in order to shut them up. This happens even to JWs who voice only a small disagreement with the Society. Of course, because of this, JW leaders come under the direct and clear condemnation of Proverbs 17:15: "Anyone pronouncing the wicked one righteous and
anyone pronouncing the righteous one wicked -- even both of them are something detestable to Jehovah." Can it get any clearer than this?
: According to Jesus stumbling blocks are inevitable. That means that there are going to be errors and transgressions that have the potential to stumble others off the path. Furthermore, Jesus said that things that cause stumbling would exist within his kingdom up until the time that he sends forth his angels to take care of business. Matthew 13:41 says that during "the conclusion of the system of things the Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things causing stumbling and persons doing lawlessness." That prophecy proves that there will be numerous things that cause stumbling within the true religion right up until the moment that Christ arrives for the judgment of his household.
In your customary fashion, Bobby, you misrepresent even that which you hypocritically claim you believe is God's Word. In this illustration to which you refer, Jesus is talking about "weeds" being sown in 'the field of the world' -- not "within the true religion". When "the Son of man arrives in his glory" he establishes his Kingdom over the world, and proceeds to clean out of it all the nasty weeds and such. So here you've deliberately misrepresented what the Bible clearly says is Jesus' Kingdom, and equated it with "the true religion" which you claim is that of Jehovah's Witnesses. In this, you're as vilely deceitful as the worst of the Society's writers -- and as reprehensible before your God.
: Jehovah's judgment of his organization is in recognition of the fact that his people have caused others to stumble. For example, Ezekiel 36:15 says: '"And I shall cause no further humiliating talk by the nations to be heard concerning you, and reproach by the peoples you will no more bear, and your nations you will no more cause to stumble,' is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah."' Jehovah's word is consistent with the reality before us.
What nonsense! Ezekiel's prophecy concerned the repatriation of the Jews from Babylonian captivity. Ezekiel 36:11 makes this clear, and destroys your claim that it concerns anything about Jehovah's Witnesses today: "... I shall actually cause YOU to be inhabited as in YOUR former condition..." This obviously applies to the Babylonian captivity, and if the prophecy were fulfilled at all, it was obviously fulfilled when the Jews returned to Judah some decades later. And because the Jehovah's Witnesses are not in any sort of "Babylonish captivity" today -- even by their own prophetic interpretations -- the entire prophecy of which verse 36:11 is a part cannot apply to them. Finally there is the rather obvious consideration that there is no evidence whatsoever that writings like Ezekiel's were meant to apply to anything beyond the ancient nation of Israel.
: Because of numerous failed prophetic interpretations, the bad publicity due to mishandled child-abuse cases, the Watchtower's association with the United Nations as an NGO, and any number of other scandals, have surely provided the basis for all sorts of "humiliating talk" concerning Jehovah's Witnesses---both now and going forward.
You got that right!
This admission of course raises a serious question: if a holy and anointed wannabe Priest-King can see and admit the grievous errors of JW leaders, why can't his fellow wannabe Priest-Kings themselves admit it? The reason is simple: they're hypocrites who are concerned only with their own salvation, and so they've blinded themselves to the truth about themselves and the sorry history of their religion. I think that Matthew 7:21-23 applies nicely:
21 "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?' 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.
: As the prophecy foretells, so we see, that such things constitute enormous stumbling blocks for the very people of the nations that we seek to convert to our faith.
How very astute!
: What's the solution?
Dismantling the Watchtower organization is one solution. Getting rid of 95% of the top leadership and replacing it with decent human beings is another.
: Before God grants entry into his new world, His purpose is to judge his people and administer the proper degree of punishment and ultimately to purge his organization of all corruption. Jeremiah 46:28 ...
Oh please! More misapplied Old Testament prophecies that have long been gone!
: But, for those who want to remain in the faith,
You have the utter gall to equate "the faith" with the JW religion? Fantastic! What amazing ability to blind yourself by spiritually masturbating!
: but who are having a hard time reconciling all the inconsistencies and error that we are confronted with, the Bible provides a satisfying answer.
This is rich, dear readers!
: Given the fact that God's prophetic word recognizes that his witnesses in covenant with him inadvertently
Inadvertently? Read again Greg Stafford's comments above. Better yet, read his book.
: cause some to stumble due to our own folly and error, it completely demolishes the reasoning of our apostate enemies.
I think that your deliberate misrepresentations of the Bible above completely demolish the reasoning of apostate enemies of God such as yourself. Unbelieving critics like me have no reason to misrepresent the Bible because we don't believe it. It would be like misrepresenting Grimm's Fairy Tales -- there'd be no point. You have every reason to misrepresent it because it's your main authority -- or so you tell yourself -- and so, because you desire that certain things be so, you twist the Scriptures to make them come out the way you want.
: Rather than our many errors proving that we are a false religion, as our enemies contend, because of the fact that God's word foretells this very scenario, instead it lends weight to the evidence that we are serving God's purpose.
Nonsense. You're saying good is evil and evil is good; black is white and vice versa. Doesn't the Bible condemn such flagrant hypocrisy?
: No doubt the apostate will insist that the Watchtower is evil and cannot possibly be Jehovah's organization and protest that the Bible can be used to prove anything.
The truth cannot be denied.
: But, the truth is that Jehovah's judicial decisions regarding His people are simply incomprehensible to our enemies.
Ah, the old "you're too stupid to understand my foolishness" tack. It might work on the people you fool in your congregation, Bobby, but it don't mean shit hee-yuh!
: So, while God's word plainly states how God is going to deal with his somewhat wayward organization,
Oh yes, you've made it so plain.
: apostates are by no means guilt free.
Irrelevant. "You're no better than I am!" is all this amounts to. What a baby you are, Bobby!
: Proverbs 4:16 is right on the mark in assessing the way apostate Dubs think, where it says: "Their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble."
Proverbs 4:16 is right on the mark in assessing the way apostate JW leaders think, where it says: "Their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble."
: While the Watchtower has undeniably set numerous potential stumbling blocks before the brothers, apostates are zealous to exploit and advertise these in an effort to set the stumbling blocks before as many as possible.
You call freeing people from the shackles of braindeadness "stumbling blocks"? Of course you do! You have no choice, for to do any different would require you to admit that the wickedness of JW leaders is precisely what disqualifies them from any claim to speaking for God.
: In Jesus' prophecy of the last days he foretold that many would be stumbled, and yet the Psalms says that for those loving God's law there is no stumbling block. That means that the very thing that stumbles some doesn't faze others.
Wow! What insight! One man's bread is another man's poison!
Look at it this way, Bobby: Some people are so braindeadly nationalistic that they'll go along with genocide if their leaders tell them to. Same goes for the religiously nationalistic who equate their leaders with God. Others have a strong sense of morals and refuse to commit atrocities no matter what their leaders say. Obviously, you know where your bread is buttered.
: Truly, God's law recognizes that His organization is not measuring up to his standards and it outlines how Jehovah proposes to rectify the situation. So, those who love God's law can look beyond the error that Satan wants us to focus on, and can see the solution to the paradox that confronts us.
LOL! What a fine conclusion to a series of nonsensical statements. Bobby, you've outdone yourself!
So as usual we find that a JW defender is completely unable to advance a single positive reason that JW leaders speak for God, and so he's reduced to saying merely, "We're imperfect! That doesn't disqualify us from speaking for God!" As if being imperfect were a good reason. If it were, we'd all be speaking for God.
Do keep up your postings, Bobby. They rarely fail to entertain, and they're far better at showing observers what Jehovah's Witnesses are all about than any "apostate" could ever pull off.
AlanF
