Do you believe Jehovah enjoys watching people suffer and why would you want to worship him?

by booker-t 30 Replies latest jw friends

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  Sadashivom

  Ancient Kings and “royal” priests wanted it that way, so they depicted God to suit their agenda. It has nothing to do with the real God!

  For example, one who went to gather fire-wood on Sabbath day, was given death punishment. (Number 15:32-36, this suits the priestly class) But when David commited adultery (inspite of having “concubines and wives.”--2 Samuel 5:13; 12:7-8, Chronicles 3:1-9; 14:3) and arranged a most heinous murder of Bethsheba’s husband, David was not given death-punishment (this suits the kingly class).
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  Sadashivom

  God should be known from the work He has performed, not from accounts such as Noah’s flood, which obviously was written by man to suit his convenience. Out of countless example, take just one example of his work: Tree.

  TREE is a true symbol of God, the Benefactor. It silently works to produce fruits which are to be enjoyed by others who may appreciate the tree or not. While itself being in the hot sun, it provides refreshing shade to other beings. What better lesson can we have on the principle of ALTRUISM, “taking delight in the welfare of all beings” which is the very basis of spirituality, also called “eternal duty” (sanatana dharma)? (Gita 12:4, 20) Take the case of trees, such as mango. It produces seed in the memory of which countless future generations of that tree remain protected [the sanskrit word for continued existence, something that which remains same always—was, is, and will be—is SATYAM = truth]; then it covers the seed with flesh which will be a deliciously beneficial treat for other beings [SHIVOM = benevolence]; and finally it presents it to us in attractive/appealing colors [SUNDARAM = beauty]. Thus they display God’s cardinal qualities also.

  Here is the syllogysm:

  The benevolent will not watch his babies dying in a flood

  God is Ultimate Benevolent

  Hence Noah’s flood has not occurred!

  Therefore, look at a fruit-bearing tree, you will know God better!
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  Heartofaboy

  I do not agree with you Watson.

  You said " If it means a few people lose their lives, then so be it. He gave 'em life, he can, and will, take it away when he sees fit."

  Surely once God creates a conscious sentient life he has responsibilties toward that life just as a human father has toward his children.

  God has done himself no favours in the way he has dealt with humans.

  Hoab
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  Finkelstein

  The God of the ancient Hebrews never existed other than the embellished imaginary stories told of their God as a means to create power and relevance.
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  WTWizard

  Joke-hova cannot bear seeing humanity rise. That thing destroyed technology in the past, along with all evidence of its existence so no one could reproduce it or even believe it once existed. That thing, even according to its own LIE-ble, created a race of people and commissioned it to enslave everyone else (as can be seen by what Israel did when it arrived in Canaan, and what happened when someone tried preserving something instead of destroying it). That thing, again according to its own LIE-ble, had Tyrant David destroying many Gentiles that would not worship joke-hova, simply because they would not worship joke-hova. Even in Eden, joke-hova revealed its intolerance for mankind to live in freedom and peace.

  Never mind merely tolerating evil. How often do Talmud, LIE-ble, and Quran glorify the same rubbish. Sexism against women, homophobia, slavery and torture of those not believing, and forcing others to conform even if they are merely minding their own business run among all three. People are sinning if they simply mind their own business and do not worship joke-hova. All three do their share in suppressing science and forcing people to do without advances that they once had or that they could easily have. All three give requirements for pointless sacrifices in one form or another, often in the form of mandatory fasting. All three require a measure of proselytizing, and condemn non-adherents to death or eternal torment. These similarities lead me to believe allah and joke-hova are one and the same being, and jesus a fictitious character designed to enslave us and prevent mental freedom. For sure, joke-hova would have to want us suffering (so it could enslave us) to provide and enforce such rubbish on the whole population.

  Now, Satan--who has received heaps of abuse--wants us to prosper. Satan supports science in its purest form. Satan wants us to grow and develop, so we will not be enslaved. Satan accepts homosexuals and bisexuals as they are, without trying to force them to change. Satan accepts women and men as equals, not women as slaves to men. Satan does not accept people forcibly enslaving and torturing others with the viewpoint of stifling freedom, or destruction or suppression of science to support dogma. And Satan does not accept blind obedience, which is a form of stupidity. Satan didn't accept blind obedience in Eden, and He doesn't accept it now. For trying to free us, Satan has received much abuse--yet He continues to this day trying to get us to take a step back and look at the cruelty of joke-hova.
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  Heartofaboy

  Satan ain't no friend of mine WTW.

  Hoab
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  Captain Obvious

  "Faith" will often present you with paradoxes like these. In a Christians mind, all good comes from gawd. All bad comes from satan. They read their bibles more than anybody and yet they still don't see YHVH for the prick he is. All through the bible while the mighty YHVH is killing millions and demanding humans love and worship him and sacrifice to him.. While satan never hurt a fly. Never lied, carried through on every promise. It's like he's the biblical freedom fighter looking to free mankind from the evil dictatorship of YHVH.

  All the while, Christians are ignorant enough to claim that evolution is untrue.

  Free your minds!
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  LisaRose

  WATSON: You've got to look at the bigger picture. No matter the costs, Jehovah's name is above all others!! He must be known as the only true God.

  If it means a few people lose their lives, then so be it. He gave 'em life, he can, and will, take it away when he sees fit.

  LISA ROSE: That makes makes absolutely no sense. Why would any being allow suffering to prove his name is above all others? If his name really is above all others, he doesn't need to prove it. And we are not just talking about giving or taking life, we are talking allowing suffering of the billions of humans, the holocaust, Cambodia, wars, famine, etc. What kind of petty, vain and cruel God would allow that to happen, just to prove a point?

  That is like your neighbor telling you that your children don't really love you, or want you to be their father, so you beat and starve them, so you can prove to your neighbor that they still love and obey you and tell you that you are the best father ever. Any person who did this would be arrested and vilified, yet God does this on a grand scale, and that makes you want to worship him? Why?
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  BU2B

  I struggle with this as well. I have been studying history. I read a book about the 100 worst atrocities in history, things beyond the widely known Nazi era. It was not unique. The more you study history you start to realize it was ond big sadistic disease filled bloodbath. The things that have been done to people, unspeakable. If you take the most depraved violent thought you can think of anyone doing to another person, it has all been done and more! This is not unique!It has been going on, is now, and will in the future. Many hundreds of millions have been slaughtered in the most brutal ways imaginable, all while Je-hovah looks on.

  The Dubs say that Jehovah is not doing these things, but allows them to happen. To me this is just as bad. If I let my 3 year old daughter be babysat by a know pedophile, let her play in traffic, play by an inground swimming pool without permission, and just watch the results, what kind of father would I be? The worst kind. True I didnt DO anything to her, but society in general views non action, when you have the power to stop something to be reprehensible.

  What king of father wouldnt warn Adam and Eve about Satan? Why did he put cherubs near the tree of life? Preventing them from living forever? What kind of father would confuse the languages of men because he said, "nothing they do is impossible if we let them be united and continue?" Why did he drown his children, one of the most terrifying deaths? Why not just put them to sleep like we do our sick pets? What kind of father just lets endless atrocites happen, over and over again, and not step in just because he was challenged? If I got challenged that my daughter didnt really love me and she only stays with me because I give her good food to eat and fun toys, would I let the challenger abuse her to the limit, just to see if she still loves me after? Only an egotistical sadistic human father would do this, but this is what the account of JOB entails. It always disturbed me greatly when when mentally in. I always thought it was selfish. Is that all God thinks of us? It is always said that Job gained more after. I ask what about the lives of all the servants, and his kids? Are they expendable?

  What about Jepthahs daughter? It dosent say anywhere in the Bible that she served at the temple like the WT teaches, but some feel that she was a human sacrifice. I dont know, its possible. I ALWAYS struggled with Joshuas campaighn through caanan, slaughtering the population. Actually, that was one of the top 100 atrocites of the book I read. They estimated millions were killed, if the account is accurate. Imagine, the streets must have been RIVERS of blood!!! Cutting open pregnant women, etc. Tell me how did they tell a virgin to keep from a non virgin? I shudder to think.... But these were holy men... I always struggled with loving the God JWs worship and idolize as potrayed in the OT.\

  On the other hand, I love the teachings of Jesus, and support what he taught.. I dont know.. My only thing that keeps me with any belief is the thought that maybe heaven is soooo great and wonderful, that any atrocity suffered here on earth will pale in comparison to how it is there, maybe even make it seem insignificant by comparison. But I still dont like the comparison to a human father because no human father would let their child suffer the way mankind has if he could help it FOR ANY REASON. I am still figuring out who I really am and what I really believe at this point..
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  Mum

  I think watson was being ironic, sorta like a joke.