The two-tiered Christian system. WHY?! (page 3)

slimboyfat

It was an off the cuff reply by Rutherford to a question from the audience at a convention wasn't it?

a watcher

Watkins, JW's believe that the little flock are destined to serve Jehovah forever in heaven and the other sheep are destined to serve Jehovah forever on earth.

AnnOMaly

slim,

Yes, Rutherford's talk at the 1935 convention was discussing the identity of the 'great multitude' and 'other sheep' classes. The earthly Jonadabs had been specially invited to the convention.

In the words of the 1975 Yearbook (p. 156): "Webster L. Roe recalls that at a climactic moment J. F. Rutherford asked: 'Will all those who have the hope of living forever on the earth please stand?' According to Brother Roe, 'over half of the audience stood,' and the speaker then said: 'BEHOLD! THE GREAT MULTITUDE!' 'There was at first a hush,' recalls Mildred H. Cobb, 'then a gladsome cry and the cheering was loud and long.'"

So what happened was, Rutherford got all the earthly Jonadabs to stand up and, in one, short, booming sentence relegated the secondary heavenly class ('great multitude') to earth. The 'hush' was more likely a stunned, confused silence.

Thus, three classes became two.

a watcher - yes, we know already. The question was where the JW interpretation came from and how it evolved :-)

prologos

AnnOMaly the Romans had a word for spectacles like that:

VOX POPULI, VOX DEI. or close, but mass hysreria, emotions, consensus like that,-- not truth make. recall Hitler's rallies at the same time

the unravelling of SOME of that era's fallacious and dangerous dogmas will take longer than others, obviously.

heathen

A classic unveiling - millions now living will never die . A false prophesy up until recently, now the generation is unidentifiable and over lapping . The second heavenly class became the earthling class and now are merely the second resurrection class .

DATA-DOG

JW reasoning:

Householder: Do you believe in the trinity?

JW: No. That word is not even in the Bible at all!

HH: Do you believe in paradise [ earth ] and the great crowd of [ other sheep ], and [ new ] scrolls?

JW: Yes, of course! It's in the Bible!

HH: Not interested...

Larsinger58

The two-tier system is legit. The parable of the vineyard workers confirms workers hired after the third hour were not told they would receive the "penny" which is the invitation to heaven. The workers work for 11 hours, each hour is 7 years, thus 7 years from 1914-1991. The third-hour workers appear after 21 years. 1914 + 21 = 1935. This reflects the two-tier system among JWs where the original members all are of the anointed and have the heavenly hope; these are promised the penny in advance. The other workers from the 3rd through the 11th are told they will get whatever is fair, thus they expect something less; obviously, the earthly hope.

BUT....

Note that after the work is done, ALL the workers are given the penny. Thus the "other sheep" after Christ's return during the 12th hour (1991-1998) are now invited into the heavenly class -- if they are awake and they qualify. So the 2-tier system is just temporary.

Even so, many fail to qualify. The heavenly class are king-priests but there still is an earthly class.

The 144,000 are natural Jews, the remnant of Abraham's seed who fulfill the covenant. They make up 1/10th of the whole tree, the other 90% being gentiles (Isa. 6:13)

Jeffro

So where did CTR get his 144,000/literal number idea from in the first place?

When the distribution of Zion's Watch Tower was quite small, 144,000 probably seemed like a practical goal for membership of the Bible Students, so literal was the way to go, plus it made members feel just that little bit more special.

Because of the later growth of the movement, 144,000 became too limiting (particularly allowing for the supposed 'faithful Christians' since Pentecost 33), so it had to be hived off into a separate 'class' to allow for much greater growth for Rutherford's sect.

'Fortunately', the Bible contains enough ambiguous drivel to 'prove' just about anything. For example, read just about any post by Larsinger58.

Jeffro

Larsinger58:

The 144,000 are natural Jews, the remnant of Abraham's seed who fulfill the covenant. They make up 1/10th of the whole tree, the other 90% being gentiles (Isa. 6:13)

I don't like to encourage your delusional drivel. However, it's worth pointing out that Zechariah 8:23 would more readily point to 1/11th being 'natural Jews'.

Isaiah 6:13 is about Jews surviving attacks by Syria (during the Assyrian reign of Tiglath-pileser III), not some magical future thing.

But you're entirely wrong anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter too much.

The two-tiered Christian system. WHY?!

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