"Without God in your life, you cannot have a moral compass",,,, Please explain to me why you think that should be so?
Theists - Why does Morality require the existence of God?
by cantleave 122 Replies latest watchtower bible
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slimboyfat
You can always say you have a "moral compass" of your own choosing of course. But then, really, what sort of compass is it that allows you to choose your own north? If you want a moral compass that has what you might call objective validity then you need to start believing in such things as an ultimate being who has responsibility and the right to define what is good.
Personally I believe in neither an ultimate being nor objective universal morality, and can quite understand why theists protest you can't have one without the other. They're right, and I say let's have neither.
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Satanus
Morals are simply the communal (human based) concesus of right and wrong. Sometimes, morals are wrong. Being herd creatures, humans tend to internalize the communal concensuses. Thus, you not only get morals, you get fashions, wars, culture, gangs, government, religions....
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tec
Not everyone thinks that, though I am sure you know this. There is a reason that love can also provide that moral compass; that other civilizations have similar moral laws; and that Christ said Love (of God and neighbor) is the most important commandment; and to love one another as He loves us. Because love is God. God is love.
Not everyone knows what love is, true (and so abuse the word... be those people theists or atheists). But by knowing the truth about God (which is Christ); one can know the truth about love.
Peace,
tammy
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new hope and happiness
cantleave we do not exist through ourselfs alone but through the enviroment that shapes us, that influences our thinking and is our moral compass. Of course sometimes we have someone to say that moral compass is wrong, women are equal to men,homosexuality is not evil, and we bend with new thinking.
How can the God of the bible be my moral compass that would make me a tyrant. So tell me how do i find God in my life.
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tenyearsafter
Relative morality doesn't require a belief in God, but absolute morality (that which would appear to be naturally present, ie: not to murder, steal, etc.) needs to stem from some source. If we soley evolved from inanimate matter, it would be as big a stretch of credibility to believe that people automatically evolved morals that are, for the most part, basic to all cultures, as is believing an intelligent designer put those morals in place.
The big mistake Theists make, is assuming that Atheists are immoral people. There are as many immoral Theists as there are Atheists...and as many moral people of both sides...the real question lies in where the absolute moral guidelines came from. We all can create relative morality to suit our needs...even serial killers can rationalize their actions, though most know what they are doing is "morally" wrong.
My parents contributed 100% of my DNA...if they were perfect citizens, it is still up to me to choose my own path of morality. I won't automatically become a stellar citizen...I could choose to be a criminal. I believe we all have that choice despite knowing what morals we were imprinted with by our parents.
I personally think the argument for absolute morals via an intelligent designer is more plausible than a chance convergence of do's and don'ts across cultures.
Don't know if that makes sense, but in my weakened state of having a cold, it's the best I could do!!
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Satanus
If there was absolute morality, and it was programmed into us, we wouldn't be doing immoral things.
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tenyearsafter
Satanus, good point...but we still have free will to choose what we want to do. Maybe "absolute" is the wrong description, but I was trying to distinguish between the two levels of morality. I think the bigger issue is, if there were no inate moral guidelines that are common to society, we would end up with cultures where murder, rape, theft, etc. would be perfectly acceptable and legal. As far as I know, there are no cultures where those are universally accepted concepts. Certainly there are elements within the culture that do those things, but they would not be considered "legal" or moral. If we were to make blanket assumptions like that, we would say that every Muslim is a murderous terroist or every Hindu believes in murdering their wives rather than divorcing them...which we know is not true. Choice comes in to play, but that does not make it acceptable to the culture it occurs in.
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Satanus
The only innate guide we have is empathy. It is based from a part of the brain that puts the observer into the observees position. However, this is not universal, or always in a functional state. It can be overridden by ego, fear, religion or pholiosophy. Also, psychopaths don't have it. As i stated, sometimes it is at variance w the accepted moral standards.
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tenyearsafter
Satanus, I absolutely respect your opinion.
If I were argumentative (which I am not! LOL), I could ask where empathy originates from...would it be a necesssary evolution of pre-humans? I agree that any inate belief or feeling can be overidden by the factors you mentioned (many of those actions I would call "free will"). Psychopaths or Sociopaths are exceptions, yet I still believe they know what they are doing is wrong...otherwise they wouldn't conceal their actions or avoid the authorities.