by cantleave 122 Replies latest watchtower bible
I'm an atheist. I have no fear of judgemnt day.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" says NOTHING about god.
If god-based morality is superior, why is it so ineffective?
The phrase "having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power" is an indictment of the majority of "god-fearing" people of the world.
I agree with Ayn Rand that informed self-interest is a perfect foundation for morality.
Once again, Cofty I am not disagreeing with you that the Taliban's treatment of women should be opposed. What I am still waiting for is any objective basis for that judgement. My opposition is purely subjective, in as much as the Taliban's views are contrary to my own on matters such as whether there is a God, on how women should be treated, and the freedom individuals should have to express themselves. There is nothing objective about any of that, and we shouldn't shy away from saying so.
You say an objective morality would be based on well being, which sounds to me like a version of utilitarianism. That the greatest benefit to the most individuals is he best ethical outcome. I admire people like Peter Singer who pursue this sort of logic. But ultimately you still have the problem of defining what is good, a benefit, or well being, and how to measure conflicting interests. Absent an ultimate being there can be nothing subjective at any stage if this process.
The phrase "having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power" is an indictment of the majority of "god-fearing" people of the world.
It should certainly be a clue that just because someone claims 'godly devotion' does not mean that they have a clue about God.
God is not seen through religion and men, nor even the bible. God is seen and known through the Image He sent: Christ.
It is not surprising then, that many atheists conclude that man created God in his own image. Because often, that is what happens. 'God' reflects what man has decided God to be. Instead of looking to Christ to see God. I mean, some atheists do the same... looking at religion, and the bible, and man... to see God, even though they think He does not actually exist.
Peace,
tammy
Good morning, sunshine.
Maeve
Religion has a history strewn with complete lack of morality.
Atheists require no deity to know that bad things are inherently bad. Religion never tells anyone something they shouldn't already know in this regard but it has consistently provided arguments to disregard the natural morality people are born with based on indoctrination of intollerance and hatred.
Studies have shown very young babies have an inherent ability to judge right and wrong, all religion does is destroy that with propaganda and stories of a cruel, twisted eveil deity combined with the message "he's the one you should copy".
SBF - its like you and I don't even speak the same language.
You have not demonstrated any such basis other than simply by assertion and emotive rhetoric. - SBF
Yes I have. I said... " Afghanistan has one of the highest birth rate along with the highest infant mortality and highest rates of deaths in labour in the world. Its the place to go to see women die. ". Shall we talk about economics, poverty, health care, happiness, mental health? - Cofty
What I am still waiting for is any objective basis for that judgement. - SBF
Is it a matter of subjective opinion that oppressing 50% of your population impoverishes society or is it an objective fact?
Is it a matter of subjective opinion that oppressing 50% of your population impoverishes society or is it an objective fact?Well does everyone share that view? That might be a clue. Plus you language is loaded. And of course all language is loaded, but this example in particular. The Taliban would no doubt express their programme in terms different than "oppression" and "impoverishment", to state the bleeding obvious. And again, for emphasis, I am as opposed to the actions of the Taliban as you are. The difference is I don't pretend there is an objective rationale behind my opposition. They simply act contrary to my own beliefs and values. If you know of an objective basis for such a position you have yet to share it, which is a real shame because it would be interesting to find such.
What is the point of a discussion when you totally ignore most of what I say?
Maybe I will have time to try again tomorrow.
You asked if a particular statement was an "objective fact". I explained why I think it is not best described in those terms. So what did I miss?
it seems that the strength of your argument cofty is that objective moral standards exist because you say they do.
That does seem to be about the size of it. And it is amusing/startling just how astonished he seems to be that his mere assertion of objective morality is not acknowledged as compelling proof.
