by Suspicious 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Most bible prophecy relates to Christ, imho, and most definitely does NOT apply to the wt in any age; in any way, shape or form.
If it's a true prophecy, then it'll happen whether anyone believes it or not. Since a prophecy isn't revealed as true until it actually happens, I don't go about trying to prove or disprove people's opinions or theories, I say - let's just see what happens. Saves a lot of useless bantering about what might, possibly, could happen, lol.
There are no prophecies in the bible.
If anybody wishes to assert otherwise, the onus is on them to provide extraordinary evidence for their extraordinary claim.
If that were the case wouldn't the entire bible be out of order? I thought the bible is accurately in order. I haven't seen it in any other order at least.
As for me if i belived in God i would concentrate on God is love and he created me and we are all his beloved children, and let's give unconditional love a chance.
Well, God is misunderstood by most sectarians. To think that God would throw any of his children into neverending fire, regardless of how evil they might be, to burn forever and never be consumed, is inconceivable. That said, there has to be justice mixed with mercy. People have to come to an understanding of their own nature and have a way to purge the evil within one's self. Hell isn't vengeance, it's a refiner's fire. Imagine if someone like Stalin, Mao, or Hitler had to fully comprehend the effects of their acts on each of their victims. Even if God did not judge such people, they would ultimately judge themselves. And though their acts were horrendously evil, forever is a loooooooong time. None of us can comprehend a trillion years, yet a trillion years is the quickest blink in eternity.
There are no prophecies in the bible.
Cofty, the Bible is loaded with prophecies. We know Isaiah 53 was in existence at the time of Christ and the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that many of the scriptures people thought were written after the facts, in fact, weren't. There are many prophecies in Isaiah which have already come to pass, as well as many in Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Malachi. Daniel correctly prophecied the successive empires that would follow Babylon.
Isaiah wrote:
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Isa. 11:11-12)
The Lord recovered his people once during the days of the Babylonian captivity. Then, in the mid-1800s, the Jews began returning to Palestine as the Lord, for the second time, began recovering his people. And in 1947, Judah declared itself an independant nation and the prophecy is still being fulfilled. The prophets also point to the nations "round about" Israel as Judah's enemies just before the coming of Christ. This wasn't the case in the past, but it is today.
The Antichrist
As Joel Richardson pointsout in his book, The Islamic Antichrist, Christian prophecies and Muslim prophecies are essentially the same, only inversely. The Sheites expect a prophet known as the Mahdi, and the return of Jesus, who will give deference to the Mahdi and explain to the Christians that he wasn't the Son of God; that God doesn't have a Son. He will do miracles and mighty works which will lead away the Muslims and even many Christians. On the other hand, many Christians expect both a false prophet and a false messiah. The false prophet, or "Beast," will be deferred to by the false Christ, and the false Christ will do many miracles and lead away many, even the elect (if it were possible). The Muslim Mahdi will also lead an assault against the Jews. The Beast of Revelation also makes war with the Jews during the battle of Armageddon.
The prophet Joel, Richardson's namesake, describes the power and might of the Antichrist, or Beast:
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand; a day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong. There hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. (Joel 2:1-3)
And the prophet Ezekiel speaks of the same event, though he addresses the Beast as if he were present:
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. ... And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. (See Ezek. 38-39)
Finally, Zechariah writes:
The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. (See Zech. 12-14)
Hyperbole
Naturally, "all the people of the earth" is hyperbole, such as used throughout the Old Testament. Daniel, in speaking of the future Medes-Persian Empire, said, " And after thee shall arise another kingdom...which shall bear rule over all the earth. " Most Bible scholars understand that the Persian Empire did not rule the peoples of China, Western Europe, Africa and North and South America; however, the Jehovah's Witnesses tell their members Armageddon has to be a worldwide event (WRONG!) because Revelation 16:14 states that "the kings of the entire inhabited earth" form a "united front" against Jehovah.
The King James Version of the same quote (and a little more):
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. ... And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Prophecy is something not something the leaders of the Society understand. The kings that gather to fight the battle of Armageddon consist of a nation to the north (China? Russia? Turkey?), "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee." (Ezek. 38:1-6)
So to say there are no prophecies in the Bible just doesn't wash. Whether they will ever come to pass or not, that's another issue. Certainly the first century Jews thought their Messiah would appear when the Romans came down upon them in 76 A.D. But they were mistaken. Still heady over the Macabees success, they felt certain the Lord would uphold them against the three Roman legions. Even the Jews on Masada felt sure they had been delivered. But the word of the Christian prophets and apostles was against them. And as their own prophets had written, they were killed and driven into the nations of the earth.
The Dispersion and Gathering of Judah
Ezekiel, looking into the future, knew that Judah was to be dispersed into the nations of the earth:
And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; after that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified them in the sight of many nations. Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God . (Ezek. 39:23-29)
Detail of Prophecy
So far the prophecies cited have come to pass with unfailing accuracy. After the fall of Rome, thousands were nailed to crosses lining all the roadways. Thousands more were sold into slavery to work in salt mines or serve in other backbreaking work. The Christian apostles had received revelation to flee from the city before the Romans got there, and they gathered in Pella and other cities to the north.
After their dispersion, the Lord abandoned them because of their wholesale rejection and murder of their Messiah. Ezekiel said that the " house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword." Not only were they murdered by the Romans, they were murdered by the Catholic church in large numbers in 1492 and, later, in the 1940s under the Nazis. But "after that they have borne their shame" the Lord "gathered them out of their enemies' lands" and "sanctified them in the sight of many nations." All of these things happened in detail.
But how do we know this wasn't fulfilled in another time? Because the Lord states in verse 29 that, "Neither will I hide my face any more from them." In other words, the house of Judah will return to its lands cleansed and redeemed. Then, once they occupy their land, the Jews will fight their greatest enemy yet, and the Lord will protect them and convert them.
