by sleepy 33 Replies latest jw friends
"actually, ive always heard this expressed a little differently, which was miracles were needed when the existing structure was changing"
Needed for whom?
If you were born just after Jesus died in what way could they prove anything to you as you hadn't witnessed them.
If miracles are needed as proff of anything then all need to witnesses them.
I, too, am remembering the quote:
"If the Bible proves the existence of God, comic books prove the existence of Superman."That is a great response to the bible being "it."
I am looking forward to the next time I get into this disucssion.
sleepy, you bring up such good questions! Thanks and keep it up!
You English are all so smart!
check out the findings of the Dead Sea scrolls
The Dead Sea Scrolls PROVE the existence of Jesus? Huh?
How? By covering the history of the time and area Jesus supposedly preached in, then neglecting to mention him OR *any* of the miracles? Or ANY of his apostles?
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
My favourite miracle is where the princess kisses the frog and it turns into a prince. We just don't get those miracles any more but we can take comfort in the fact that it did happen and it has all been recorded for posterity.
"If the Bible proves the existence of God, comic books prove the existence of Superman."
That's clever, but rather lame. Comic books have only been around for about 70 years and are a commercial product of writers of fiction. The writings (books) of the Bible stretch back thousands of years, were historical, prophetic and anecdotal - written for reference and study, not as an item of commerce.
The writings (books) of the Bible stretch back thousands of years
So, just out of curiosity, at what point in time did the books of the bible actually start to matter? When does Genesis stopy being a scientific nightmare and become a moving tale of the creation of the universe?
Why doesn't god perform miracles today? I assume that you are speaking about any of the various deities worshipped by the Hebrews. Perhaps Yahweh? El Shaddai? El Shalyon? Or any of the other numerous elohim in their scriptures and other writings.
The automatic assumption of many is that these miracles did not occur. I will concede that they did. There is a legal term but I cannot think of it.
Now lets list some of these miracles. Parting of the Red Sea, that is pretty impressive. Death of all the firstborns, including a living god. Pillars of fire and smoke, entertaining. Earth opening up and swallowing people. Fire raining down from heaven upon them. Water coming out of a rock, actually Ive seen that before, personally I am not that impressed by that one. But for a bunch of desert wanderers, ok I can see it. People being raised from the dead, reasonably cool, except they had to die again. Now the miracle of miracles is that food for the widow and her kid, thats pretty cool. I know there are others but I will concede that all of these happened.
Now the question remains, what power do these miracles show? Really nothing more than the ability to frighten, manipulate, and often torturously annihiliate a small group of desert tribes. These itty bitty ditties of the Hebrew people really simply were not able to affect their worshippers. And even as frightened as they were, they really were not that frightened, at least not enough to obey the edicts of these same ditties.
The ditties were unable to affect the minds, morals, actions, and character of their followers. These same people murdered, ravaged, raped, and pillaged, and that at the command of these ditties. Outside of the commands, they had yet other ditties that they offered live human sacrifices to, although even yahweh required that on occasion. They robbed from each other. Murdered each other in the streets. Had sexual intercourse with their own fathers concubines, and animals. And they ate children, often their own, true it was a time of famine yet still it occured. All of these miracles were simply ineffectual. The miracles I saw in The Matrix, have certainly affected me more than those miracles did those followers.
Miracles today? Certainly they abound. It is a miracle that the Circle People, The Fish People, and The Sand People are so easily duped by those ditties. I do not doubt their existence. I acknoweldged the miracles at the start. The deception is that they have convinced the afore to mentioned sludge monkeys that they are worthy of any attention, including worship!
Hyghlandyr! You will shout to me, is it not well known that Adamites are incredibly gullible, and if so where then is the miracle that these useless ditties should so receive honor from an Adamite? To which I must insistently exclaim sirs and madams, when an Adamite is surround by Gods and Goddesses, such as in the Irish, or the Danes, those that can be touched, smelled and tasted, and yet still they would abide these others...that is the miracle, and the tragedy my good sirs and madams, yes the miracle, and the tragedy.
Rhett:
quote:
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The writings (books) of the Bible stretch back thousands of years
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So, just out of curiosity, at what point in time did the books of the bible actually start to matter? When does Genesis stopy being a scientific nightmare and become a moving tale of the creation of the universe?
Rhett:
quote:
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The writings (books) of the Bible stretch back thousands of years
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So, just out of curiosity, at what point in time did the books of the bible actually start to matter? When does Genesis stopy being a scientific nightmare and become a moving tale of the creation of the universe?
I guess that depends on who you were. If you were a ancient Persian or Hun or most of mankind, it didn't matter. If you were reading the scrolls on the sabbath in the synogogue it mattered. The Bible will always have diffent sides arguing its validity - to some it is a scientific nightmare to others a 'clue' to the creation of the universe. But then again, what makes ever-changing science the expert. Centuries ago, in their day, the renown "scientists" thought the Earth was the center of the Universe which the Sun revolved around, the Earth was flat, and with the early (but pathetic)microscopes, the scientists believed that what we now know is sperm was "little men".
Centuries ago, in their day, the renown "scientists" thought the Earth was the center of the Universe
Blahblahblah watchtower-isms. Sadly, the truth is less interesting. "Science" as we know it today is a faily new phenomena - 1840s. Prior to the 1840s, the field in question was generally called "natural philosophy", so that even Isaac Newton's great book on motion and gravity, published in 1687, was The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
