144,000 as Kings and Priests Really? or not?

Crazyguy

In Revelation chapters 7 and 14 there it talks about the 144k but says nothing of them being kings and Priests. In Revelation chapter 5 and 20 it mentions ones being kings and judges, but if you notice in chapter 20 verse 4-5 it talks about martyrs coming to life judging and reigning with Jesus, not the 144k specifically. In verse 5-6 talks about the first Resurrection and that all that share in this first Resurrection will be Priests of God and of Jesus and they will reign for a thousand years.

So notice in Revelation chapters 7 and 19 a great crowd is mentioned being alive standing before the throne standing at the same time as the 144k are mentioned. So since this great crowd is present then doesn't verse 6 of chapter 20 apply to them as well. 'Blesses and holy is the one who shares in the first Resurrection! The second death has no power over them , but they will be Priests of God and of the Messiah, and they will reign with him for a 1000 years.

When Israel was delivered out of Egypt the nation was called a kingdom of Priests and a Holy nation.

So all who are resurrected in the first Resurrection and those who make it through the great tribulation will be a nation of Priests and will reign with Jesus not just the symbolic numbered 144k.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Larsinger58

I'd ask, does it make sense to have kings and priests with no people to serve? Who do the kings and priests serve?

My understanding is that the 144,000 are natural Jews, but only make up 1/10th of the entire number of king-priests based on Isa 6:14. The "great crowd" who come out of the great tribulation would be those who are served by the king-priests. The entire number of king-priests would thus be 1,440,000.

Revelation is so symbolic though, there's lots of room for different interpretations.

prologos

Crazy Guy, you are not crazy in your questions. remember scientific advance allows us not only better results, but more importantly ,

ask better questions, and you did.

if you read Rev 7 there 3 entities. the 144 000, the 12 tribes and The great crowd.

The 144 000 COME "OUT" OF the 12 tribes, they are SEALED, not anointed as WT says., they are first fruits, first born;-- bought FROM THE EARTH.

Your good point is that the whole nation of Israel was a kindom of priests, the same as are ALL Christians, not just the 144 k sealed ones.

ALL 12 tribes were in the LAW covenant, ALL CHristians are in the NEW covenant. Only KIngs were in the DAVIDIC covenant, only the 144000 are in the KINGDOM COVENANT. WT denies this.

The 12 spiritual tribes of REV.7 are all christians on earth, The Israel of God.

WT says erroneously the 144 k are the Israel of God, no, it is total members of the 12 tribes, 12 000 sealed plus the rest of that tribe.

The 144 k are the martyrs. like Jesus was, close to him even in heaven.

try to work with that.

EdenOne

marked

Cold Steel

...talks about the first Resurrection and that all that share in this first Resurrection will be Priests of God and of Jesus and they will reign for a thousand years.

The second death has no power over them, but they will be Priests of God and of the Messiah, and they will reign with him for a 1000 years.

So all who are resurrected in the first Resurrection and those who make it through the great tribulation will be a nation of Priests and will reign with Jesus not just the symbolic numbered 144k.

Very astute observations.

Mum

Why do "perfect" people need kings and priests? I am reminded of the ignorant, arrogant elders who smugly believed they would be "princes" in the "New Order." Why doesn't God see us all as equal?

ÁrbolesdeArabia

Questions like yours will not be tolerated at the Kingdom Hall, WATCH OUT!

Why does the Bible collide with Watchtower Scribes and Pharisees?

Paul said that we all would get a "new body". Paul writes that "Jesus is the mediator between all mankind and God". You pointed out that everyone who is raised from the dead "First Resurrection" are before the Throne!

Revelation by John of Patmos, did not prophecy about the speeches by Rutherford and Franz's or some crazy declartion done at Cedar's Point, Ohio. Rutherford and Franz had just as big of imagination as Joseph Smith, L. Ron. Hubboard and David Koresh.

Jesus said "The Son of Man came to give a ransom for all mankind".

So who is right? The Bible or the Famous Scribes of the Watchtower?

Crazyguy

Prologos, thanks for the incite, question is there any scriptural evidence that the 144k are to be kings? And since chapter 7 talks about them being sealed on earth so to protect them, does this mean that the 144k are ones that are actually alive during the great tribulation?

Cold Steel

You guys may not understand the term in context. "Kings and Priests" represent both power and authority. The apostle John teaches that all those who gain eternal life will be coheirs with Christ, inheriting all that the Father has. Theosis was a popular teaching with first century Christians. The concept was maintained by the Eastern Orthodox, but dropped as heretical by the Roman Catholics.

As children of God, we are promised a resurrection like Christ's, and power and authority like Christ's. In short, the term "Kings and Priests" symbolize God's authority as King, and his Priesthood, or Power. In much the same way we have the potential of becoming like our earthly fathers, we have the potential of becoming like our Heavenly Father.

Those who become kings and priests will inherit the same authority and power that God/Christ has. Not that they will compete or overshadow God, but they become one with Him and carry on His work, which is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

St. Athanasius of Alexandria, "The Son of God became man, that we might become god."

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"For many fathers, theosis goes beyond simply restoring people to their state before the Fall of Adam and Eve, teaching that because Christ united the human and divine natures in his person, it is now possible for someone to experience closer fellowship with God than Adam and Eve initially experienced in the Garden of Eden, and that people can become more like God than Adam and Eve were at that time. Some Orthodox theologians go so far as to say that Jesus would have become incarnate for this reason alone, even if Adam and Eve had never sinned."
Theosis - OrthoWiki

prologos

CG: I am not a deep thinking scolar. I never got the notion that the sealing was for protection or even preservation like in a canning process that I observed in my youth.

I see the seal as a mark of approval, a certification that you are genuinely accepted into that limited number.

In REv.14 the sealed 144 k are said to be on Mount ZION, the residence of the KING David & dynasty, and closely following Jesus, not only in their conduct,- as WT opines,- but into the spiritual realm.

The 12 tribes are on earth, always were, since Jacob's day, first physical , now spiritual. wt: spiritual Israel, Paul:"The Israel of God'

CG: good clarifying question 144 000 alive during Great Tribulation? not the way I read it.

since Rev 7 says they are bought "FROM the earth", their fate is sealed when they are "executed with the [symbolic] axe" that has happened since pentecost 33.

AT ANY GIVEN TIME since then there is only the worthy few that the ANGELS seal into the appropriate tribe.*

In the future, (overlapping generations away), when the last one is sealed died as a martyr for JESUS, completing the 12 K per tribe each, just prior to the final destruction of this world order,

The 12 Tribes will be devoid of the sealed firstborn (spiritually).

This led me to believe that the 12 Tribes are Christians on Earth, they are the great Crowd. but

Why would the differentiated 12 (wt speak perfectly organized) be just a pell mell GREAT CROWD? not counted wt fashion?

The Great Tribulation in its chaos would disrupt any order, and of course the angels are finished with their TRIAGE.

That is how I would write up a summary of an analysis of a plot in a story* given all the elements and peoples ideas.

* it deserves a separate topic for those to whom such matters matter.

AT ANY GIVEN TIME since then

144,000 as Kings and Priests Really? or not?

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