Part of "Human Apostates" talk missing?

by breakfast of champions 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    For full disclosure, I did not personally go to the convention on the day of the talk, but am going on my wife's recollection and her thorough notes.

    When she got home, I asked her about the part and what was said, point by point from the beginning of the talk. I then mentioned this point (lifted from the other thread ):

    "For instance, in one country a news report instigated by apostates falsely stated that Jehovah’s witnesses supported Hitler’s regime during world war two. In other countries apostate used the media to accuse Jehovah’s witnesses of refusing to give medical treatment to their children and of deliberately condoning serious sins committed by fellow believers"

    She said No, they said nothing like that at all. I asked to see her notes ( she is an extremely thorough note taker ) and lo and behold, nothing. That whole passage was gone.

    So, I am wondering if anyone else attending picked up on this missing section (the 'strawman' section) of the talk. I wondered aloud to my wife if they had second thoughts about telling friends what apostate issues are. Information on Rutherfords "Declaration of Facts" is just a click away, and including that bit there did seem to be inviting "trouble"

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    Anyone? Anyone?

    Bueller? Bueller?

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    BOC:

    The part looks like an outline talk. Most of them are, especially the symposium parts. I would wait and see if there might be several reports from different DCs. There might be a human factor that could affect the talk in any particular location. But your asking about it gets the ball rolling for further observations.

    Take Care

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    They mentioned it at my DC. Perhaps the speaker that your wife heard chose not to include that part? IDK...

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Wow they must be really scared.... They are bringing up these things themselves now.... Not smart. Those JWs may indeed be still brainwashed, but they will smell that rat a mile off, they won't forget it and I give it weeks before they dare google it....

    get out of her my people, flabby-bum the not so great is falling

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    Interestingly, there is actually truth in all of those "apostate" accusations. Of course the wording is interesting. They all from a JW perspective are defensible.

    For example:

    In other countries apostate used the media to accuse Jehovah’s witnesses of refusing to give medical treatment to their children.

    A JW would respond indignantly, "That's not true. We accept all medical treatments except blood transfusions. The media always twists things to make us look bad!"

    However, that same JW woud fail to recognize that the statement does NOT say witnesses refuse ALL medical treatment, just that they refuse "medical treatment." Guess what? Blood transfusions are a "medical treatment."

    Most media/news reports I've seen concerning this issue are very specific to mention the JW practice of refusing blood transfusions and blood products as the particular forms of medical treatment refused.

    In this quote from the DC Speaker (yes, I listened to the recorded talk on the referenced thread) HE WAS THE ONE THAT TWISTED THE STATEMENT to make it appear that the media was falsely portraying news reports about JW practices.

    A simillar analysis could be made about the "condoning of serious sins" remark. First, since the comment doesn't specifically mention a particular "serious sin" it's likely that the average JW would interpret the comment generally to include any and all serious sins and respond with a pre-programmed, WT sponsered, "That's not true! Why our elders DF'd ol' Brother Slurredspeech for overdrinking just last month, and six months ago Sister Flirty Pioneer was publicly reproved for fornication!" [You don't really think there is such a thing as "confidentiality" in the congregations, do you?]

    Secondly, since the average R&F JW doesn't have a clue about the pervasiveness of the pedophile problem among JWs it's unlikely they would even think of that as one of the serious sins. The WT always says the most common cause of DF'ings is for fornication and/or unspecified "sexual sins." Finally, the comment misdescribes the actual problem by falsely saying "apostates" claim JWs are "condoning serious sins committed by fellow believers" when in fact the real accusation is that the WT leadership is guilty of covering up a serious and widespread pedophile problem among its membership!

    See how differently this reads when you deconstruct the WT spin-doctors take on "apostate" claims and re-word them to reflect the truth accurately describing reality.

    All that being said, I will say this: I was a bit surprised anything even approaching specific accusations were even alluded to, albeit in a very slanted way. Generally speaking, the WT practice is to not even mention the claims, disagreements or accusations of "apostates."

    No I know why. When they do it's not hard to see the disingenuine nature of their lame "defense."

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    I googled "jehovah's witnesses refuse blood transfusions" and got " About 123,000 results (0.25 seconds)"

    I also googled "jehovah witness refuse medical treatment" and got " About 642,000 results (0.30 seconds)"

    I then perused the first 10 out of 10 linked articles from my google search. In every single instance, that is 10 out of 10 articles, the article specifically stated the specific "medical treatment" refused was either a blood transfusion or some blood related product. That's 100 percent of the Google search results!

    This is bad news for our DC Convention Speaker quoted above. Why? Because that means either that he did not check his facts before making this public statement, or he deliberately worded them so as to mislead his audience.

    Now the intentions of another person is a hard thing to know for a certainty. We can only know the facts and speculate the intent.

    But we know that a quick internet search taking a fraction of a second revealed this Brothers statement to be innaccurate concerning the media's portrayal of the JW's position on refusing "medical treatments."

    If he didn't check his facts we can only assume he is either too lazy to have done it or too ignorant to know how. Personally I have a hard time believing either of those explanations. It is possible that he read them and misunderstood that every single article correctly said the JWs refuse blood transfusions! Nah, I'm not buying that either. Are you?

    That only leaves us with one other explanation: He is deliberately lying. And he's lying to a Convention Hall full of dedicated, baptized JWs!

    Why would he do that? Simple, he doesn't want them to know the truth.

    What a nice religion this is. The leaders are either lazy, ignorant, stupid or liars. The evidence, though hardly conclusive, suggests they are liars.

    God only knows and he'd not saying!

  • JakeM2012
    JakeM2012

    Remember, that the public speakers are now just mouth pieces or the true deceivers. I don't think that these "circuit heavies" think enough to believe it is a lie, they are just doing what they are told. Some might justify that this is "what the Society" says, they wouldn't lie and read it word for word, . These are manuscripts, meaning everything is written out, these talks are not outlines. If the brothers say something besides what on the manuscript, they have a brother following the manuscript and will write it down and supposedly it is sent to Brooklyn.

  • Paralipomenon
    Paralipomenon

    Another part may have gone overtime and he trimmed some examples from his part to make up the difference.

  • mysticalwolf40
    mysticalwolf40

    I went to the convention this past weekend (July 26-28) Double checked my notes and they did not say anything about Hitler (either way) or anything about medical treatment and believe me, being new to the JW studies, I scribbled as fast as my hands could go.

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