Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?

by Socrateswannabe 47 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Socrateswannabe

  In Acts 7:59, the Jews were casting stones at Stephen and his last words were, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

  The WTS has contended that all of the ancients who died after Jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which WT reference you are looking at). And in fact, V. 60 says Stephen "fell asleep in death".

  But his first utterance, asking Jesus by the way, not Jehovah, to receive his spirit, seems to indicate that he expected an instant resurrection to heaven. I don't see any explanation from the WTS regarding this scripture, or how it can be taken any other way. Admittedly, I no longer believe the bible as truth, I'm not convinced that there was a man named Stephen or that he spoke any of these words, just as most of the other bible characters were, I believe, fictional and the stories carried the agendas of those writing them. However, shouldn't this give the WTS fits? How could they possibly account for it?
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  Bobcat

  Paul seemed to think that the resurrection for fellow believers was still some time in the future. The quotations below are from sometime after Stephen's death. (The links show alternate renderings for 1 Cor 15:23 & 1 Thess 4:15.)

  (1 Corinthians 15:20-23 NWT) . . .However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]. 21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.

  (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NWT) . . .Moreover, brothers, we do not want YOU to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that YOU may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope. 14 For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those who have fallen asleep [in death] through Jesus God will bring with him. 15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah's word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words.

  It's hard to say what Stephen thought. If he had heard the teachings of the apostles (Acts 2:46), then he probably heard what they heard from Jesus (Compare John 5:28, 29; 6:39, 40, 44, 54)

  Take Care

  (It looks like I was still editing whilst you replied. I think my edit took up the thought you expressed)
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  Socrateswannabe

  Bobcat, yes, I agree with you that Paul placed the resurrection of the worthies during Christ's presence, which the WTS places in the 20th century. But who forgot to tell Stephen?
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  Bobcat

  Socrates

  See my additional edit above.

  Take Care
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  wolfman85

  According to the account in Acts Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps in his case , the Holy Spirit let him know what would happen to him, but that's just speculation on my part .
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  Socrateswannabe

  Thanks for the responses. Bobcat, you are one of several people on this forum who obviously have a great number of resources at your disposal and who know how to use them. I would like to learn more about the bible, its origins, how it was compiled, who really wrote it, the differences between the source texts, etc., which you, among others, seem to be very plugged into. My purpose may be different from some of you, in that I am firmly leaning toward the bible as being a work of man with many errors and contradictions. But I would like to either validate my skepticism or disprove it, based upon the best scholarly works available. Would you or any others on this forum recommend particular references or books that will help me? Basically, what did you read and what do you refer to in order to draw your conclusions?

  It's sad that I don't know the answer to these questions, but as an "active" JW, I have been trained for years to only read WTS publications and the cherry picked quotes from dubious sources. Please help me to get some objectivity here, would you?
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  Band on the Run

  Great question? He was no Yhwhist. I wondered the same thing years ago. I read that Stephen and others in his group do not have traditional Hebrew names. They were Greek names-Hellenized Jews. Most books say Jews had no resurrection hope until about 100 years before Jesus. The idea caused controversy. NT scholars point out that the Jewish resurrection belief was markedly different from Christian notions. Jews believed in an actual physical body resurrection on earth. The idea of disembodied s pirits playing harps floating past God in heaven was a Greek notion. So I wonder if Stephen, a Jew exposed to Greek ideas, might view Jesus differently than Hebrew Jews.

  Also, he makes the comment at a moment of extreme stress when any theological notions would prob not enter his brain. It certainly runs counter to thevJW doctrine

  Acts itself is controversial. It is not Pauline but the debate was too much for my head. I needed aspirin for the brain stress. It certainly raises huge questions. If Jesus is a dinky angel, why pray to him.. We were taught in law school to always start at the top b/c powerful people have the discretion to make deals. If I were being stoned, I would skip right past Jah and beg El.I
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  Bobcat

  Socrates:

  As to resources, first I'll mention Leolaia (whom I haven't heard from for a while), AnnOMaly, Vidqun, Blondie (these come to mind right off the top of my head, but there are numerous others here that are very good at finding or having access to info in WT publications as well as non-WT and secular sources (including physics, math, science, economic, you-name-it). Feel free to ask, and you may get surprising results.

  Having a good personal library can cost some. Having said that, here are some low cost ideas to start with:

  Become proficient at searching on the internet. (You may already be, but just as a matter of mentioning.)

  The internet has a surprising amount of resources

  For Hebrew/Greek/Translations/Commentaries:

  BibleHub.Com BibleGateway.Com BibleStudyTools.Com Bible.Org CrossWalk.Com (I'm sure there are others)

  Use the Search function here at this site. This site has built up an interesting fund of info on various topics.

  Get a copy of this book. Depending on which direction you want your personal library to go in, this book will give you an idea of whats out there and which references will best fit what you are looking for. (By the way, I'm not trying to advertise for that site, I just wanted you to see the book and what it costs. But I have bought from them numerous times. Any reference you find in a bookstore will be about a third less at this site. And there may be other web-stores like it.)

  Those are some ideas to start with. Much of the learning is not so much having it as knowing how to find it. (And it seems to me that the WT wiould like for you not to be able to find it, or even know that it is out there.)

  If you have a particular type book in mind (Lexicon, Commentary, etc) ask and I'll give you my preference, but you will probably get other opinions also that are just as good or better.

  Hope this helps.

  Take Care
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  Band on the Run

  If you want good sources, I would suggest finding a database for scholarly articles. My local library does not have one b/c it is so expensive but large cities will have a free one. You can just put whatever you are interested into the search box, and retrieve thousands of articles, depending on the topic. I download interesting ones to my computer. Altho I may not read them, I know they are there. My problem is not kinowing which journals are the best sources for whatever.

  I find that you can get a quick idea of the range of opinions. It is interesting to compare Protestant and Roman Catholic views. Some of the titles sound very provocative and exciting, though, and the actual article is dull.

  I've spoken with a few top scholars on impulse calls. They don't mind helping anyone if the call is brief. My personal experience is that they provide rapid insight that I could not gain from reading the literature alone. I think it thrills them that someone is interested in their work. Of course, there is no guarantee that they will be nice on any given occasion.
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  Socrateswannabe

  Bobcat and BOTR, thank you both for your comments and helpful suggestions. For a couple of years now I have used this forum and the search feature as a main source of information. I appreciate it when posters name the scholarly research from which their opinions were formed. It helps a lot. I stumbled on this site when googling a question about the viability of a vessel such as Noah's ark being seaworthy, and I have been hooked on on JWN ever since. Those posters on this forum that you mentioned, Bobcat, as great sources of information and scholarly research, have indeed helped me a great deal. I will investigate the suggestions that you and BOTR have offered, and hopefully this will help me on my quest for truth, or at least the closest I can come to truth, since I no longer believe it as an absolute. Thanks again!