Is the Universe Conscious?

by still thinking 140 Replies latest jw friends

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    The subjective inner experience of Samahdi, or Nirvana where a person loses ego boundaries and feels a "oneness" with everything is an psychological expereince and therefore open to interpetation and subject to interpetation bias. This in no way can be offered as proof that this experience should be taken as truth or ultimate reality because of its highly subjective nature. It requires leaps in logic that are not justified.

    I have entered into that oness state on many occassions but it wasn't enough for me to make a leap of faith and proclaim it to be reality, instead I think of it as an alternate form of consciousness but not the absolute truth or reality.

  • AwareBeing
    AwareBeing

    Well cofty,

    Obviously I'm not vibrating at optimum performance,

    and it appears that I need to get even lower in order to debate evolutionists.

    I'm not saying that all of them are rabid, any more than to say all JW's are bad.

    To be sure, not all scientists are evolutionists, nor are all scientists engineering healthy foods.

    On the contrary, there's an ever greater push to make only processed foods available;

    and people are reacting by putting natural foods in the spotlight.

    We don't need to discuss GM-O's in order for us to get the counter-point to your posting.

    As for your mention of wisdom, that's only from God; and requires to be properly applied.

    That goes for both of us; we're all still learning, and thanks for your input.

    Hopeful I was able to clarify what was meant.

  • cofty
    cofty
    To be sure, not all scientists are evolutionists

    Every scientist who is not motivated by superstition accepts the fact of evolution. Its not up for debate.

    As for your mention of wisdom, that's only from God

    "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" - Christopher Hitchens

    It is a very long time since anybody said anything wise in the name of god.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Ego Death:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death

    Ego death is an experience [dubiousdiscuss] that is said to reveal the illusory aspect of the ego, sometimes undergone by mystics, shamans, monks, psychonauts and others interested in exploring the depths of the mind.

    The practice of ego death as a deliberately sought "mystical experience" in some ways is said to overlap with, but is nevertheless distinct from, traditional teachings concerning enlightenment/"Nirvana" (in Buddhism) or "Moksha" (in Hinduism and Jainism), which might perhaps be better understood as transcendence of the notion that one even has any actual, non-illusory "ego" with which to experience "death" in the first place.

    An ego death is said to be characterized as the perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment, a sense of the loss of "control", the loss of the accustomed feeling of existing as a "personal agent", and lose "cognitive-association binding". [ 1 ] This "perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment" [citation needed] is said to be experienced through a sensation that one is the whole universe (and therefore there is no need to differentiate the "I" from the "universe") or by simply acknowledging the "I" does not exist.

    Methods of inducing the experience [edit]

    Many methods, practices, or experiences may induce this state, soul-searching, lucid dreaming, sleep deprivation, fasting, meditation practice, psychedelics, or the use of an isolation tank.

    Modern claims of ego death [edit]

    Some famous examples of people claiming to have had the experience are Ramana Maharshi and U. G. Krishnamurti. In 2000 Eckhart Tolle claimed that he underwent the experience after having suffered from long periods of suicidal depression. [ 3 ] He says he woke up in the middle of that night and thought,

    I couldn’t live with myself any longer. And in this a question arose without an answer: who is the ‘I’ that cannot live with the self? What is the self? I felt drawn into a void. I didn’t know at the time that what really happened was the mind-made self, with its heaviness, its problems, that lives between the unsatisfying past and the fearful future, collapsed. It dissolved.

    Tolle recalls going out for a walk in London the next morning, and finding that “everything was miraculous, deeply peaceful. Even the traffic." [ 3 ]

    Many users of psychedelics like psilocybin, DMT, LSD, DXM or Ketamine report experiences of ego death along with other mystical experiences common with psychedelic substances. This becomes apparent on study of psychedelic reports where themes relating to dying and mortality, transcendence, and expansion of consciousness are commonly observed

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    For those interest there is a related wiki on Out Of The Body Experience:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

    Studies of OBEs [edit]

    The first extensive scientific study of OBEs was made by Celia Green (1968). [ 102 ] She collected written, first-hand accounts from a total of 400 subjects, recruited by means of appeals in the mainstream media, and followed up by questionnaires. Her purpose was to provide a taxonomy of the different types of OBE, viewed simply as an anomalous perceptual experience or hallucination, while leaving open the question of whether some of the cases might incorporate information derived by extrasensory perception.

    Previous collections of cases had been made by Dr. Ernesto Bozzano (Italy) and Dr. Robert Crookall (UK). Crookall approached the subject from a spiritualistic position, and collected his cases predominantly from spiritualist newspapers such as the Psychic News, which appears to have biased his results in various ways. For example, the majority of his subjects reported seeing a cord connecting the physical body and its observing counterpart; whereas Green found that less than 4% of her subjects noticed anything of this sort, and some 80% reported feeling they were a "disembodied consciousness", with no external body at all.

  • scotoma
    scotoma

    "At the sub nuclear level of reality...we are all one."

    Yeah! At the sub nuclear level of reality none of us exist.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    The ego get's in the way quite a lot. The ego doesn't necesarily need to die. A person can step out of it for a while. W the ego temporarily out of the way, a person can sometimes get another perspective on things.

    S

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Sure, why not? Why couldn't there be leprechauns and fairies outside my window? There just aren't, that's why. Thought is a process based on chemical reactions.

    Why not indeed

    I am not talking about a god here...just consciousness. We have it...so why not? What makes us special? If you are going to compare consciousness to leprechauns and fairies I think it may be you that is making the big leap.

    We know consciousness is REAL (unless you are saying it isn't). So it IS possible for it to exist in some other form that our senses, limited as they are, may be unable to pick up or recognise. For example, we know we are only capable of seing a few colours in the spectrum of light. Does that mean the other colours do not exist? Fortunately we have been able to develop a way to be able to see these colours like infa red and ultra violet. But if we hadn't...would they not exist on the specrum?Would that make them just as likely as fairies or leprechauns?

    We don't know that a god is real so comparing a god concept to a fairy concept is a reasonable comparison IMO. But then maybe I'm biased because I don't believe in a god...lol

    Is thought the same as consciousness? What is the difference? I might have to do some more googling

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    The idea is very loosely based on science,

    I agree

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    "At the sub nuclear level of reality...we are all one."

    Yeah! At the sub nuclear level of reality none of us exist.

    That's what is so mind boggling interesting!! Dont ya love it! We turn into a whole lot of nothing. An infinity of nothing LOL

    Except...now we know that nothing isn't even nothing anymore....so..... *holds head to stop it falling off*

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