Nice tid bit for those JW's that say Catholics are NOT Christian

by sinis 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  mP

  Cold

  And after it had come forth unto them I beheld other books, which came forth by the power of the Lamb, from the Gentiles unto them, unto the convincing of the Gentiles and the remnant of the seed of my brethren, and also the Jews who were scattered upon all the face of the earth, that the records of the prophets and of the twelve apostles of the Lamb are true. (1 Nephi 13:39)

  mP:

  Im not sure how you get they will find the nag hammadi or dead sea scrolls from that. There are always books being found. A true prophecy would have said where to find them. I can make a similar statement and say books will be found and im no prophet. I hav eno idea where they are just like the prophet joseph smith.
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  mP

  Cold

  The term "catholic" means "universal." In the so-called Apostles' Creed, it's used in verse 9 to represent the universal Christian faith, and the creed is used in Baptist and Methodist churches. My grandmother, a Southern Baptist, would recite the creed up to that point and then go silent rather than utter those hated words. Even though it's in lower case, she just couldn't bring herself to say it; it sounded too much like the upper case term!

  The Apostles' Creed is as follows:

  1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:

  2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:

  3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:

  4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:

  5. The third day he rose again from the dead:

  6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:

  7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:

  8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:

  9. I believe in the holy catholic church : the communion of saints:

  10. The forgiveness of sins:

  11. The resurrection of the body:

  12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

  MP:
  Where does it ssay Christian in the text you quote. it would seem the main point of interest afte declaring they believe in mary, jesus etc is they are the official church and by implication everybody else is wrong.
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  Satanus

  mp

  This is a compelling theory. If it was true, the flavians not only ensnared a lot of jews, early on, and not only all of the roman empire, but also continue to hold a sizable partion of the globe captive, today. You could say that the flavians were geniuses.

  Is that book the one that you would recommend as the best one on this subject?

  S
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  Julia Orwell

  " Go read the history of the first catholic saints. Practically half Vespasians family were made into saints, including his sister. The 2nd pope, Pope Clement was his cousin." -mP

  My history research says he may have been (and scholars are not certain) the freedman of Domitian's cousin, and not the cousin himself. Domitian was known as a persecutor of Christians.

  Apparently Clement asserted Roman Catholic-type authority and structure over the congregations in the form of letters stating that bishops and elders were to reign over the congregations in about 96. According to the WT, this was still when the apostle John was alive and was sort of a 'restraint' against 'apostate' ideas. However, by that time, the Christian religion appears to have moved its main base from Jerusalem to Rome, where Paul ended up.

  So much for a 'governing body' being in Jerusalem! The religion started there, but that's about it. Once again, History shows the WT up.
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  Band on the Run

  I had profs or guest speakers from the seminary across the street who worked. on the Dead Sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi find. They felt it bolstered Christianity. Big egos. Scary

  When I first read the Apostles Creed, I thought that most churches were Roman Catholic. A priest was annoyed with me. I later found out I was wrong. The earlychurch councils involve mostly Middle Eastern and North African bishops. I read that Constantine derived power from the Eastern Romr

  Indeed, when I read highlights of these councils, a pope is missing. No one defers to Rome.

  It may be contrary to JW and Protestant thought but at somr point, the Roman church is the only church for generations of Western Europe. I see the RC church as a force for good and bad. Its power was awesome. What defines the RC church today? I saw the Vatican and saw revolting things . A few minutes later I wept with joy. There are so many aspects of the church. I wanted to convert.My Catholic friends were appaled. One made me promise to attend an ordinary church. My conversion came to an abrupt halt. I once worked with poor people. I saw the RC church actively present in their lives. No Protestant chuch was around. Sad.

  .
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  Fencing

  JW's don't think anyone other than themselves are "Christian". You never see another church referred to as such in any of the publications, unless it's prefaced with "so-called". Otherwise, they're all referred to as churches of Christendom. So, this really isn't specific to Catholics.
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  jgnat

  Catholic means universal. Catholics consider Protestants to be part of the universal (catholic) church, merely misugided.

  The third mark of the Church is that she is Catholic, that is, universal; and justly is she called Catholic, because, as St. Augustine says, 'she is diffused by the splendour of one faith from the rising to the setting sun'. Unlike republics of human institution, or the conventicles of heretics, she is not circumscribed within the limits of any one kingdom, nor confined to the members of any one society of men, but embraces within the amplitude of her love, all mankind, whether barbarians or Scythians, slaves or freemen, male or female. - "Catechismus ad Parochos" 1566

  The One True Church. Sound familiar?
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  mP

  Julia

  My history research says he may have been (and scholars are not certain) the freedman of Domitian's cousin, and not the cousin himself. Domitian was known as a persecutor of Christians.

  mP:

  Romans had a different concept of family. I cant comment if about the blood relationship or lack thereof of Clement, however it really doesnt matter. It does however show that family was busy controlling the religion. Octavian was not Julius son but he succeeded him, via adoption.

  The same happened in Islam. The two factions of Islam Sunni & Shia, are basically two branches of Mohammads family fighting over who is the boss.

  All relgion is linked to some ruling elite. You can almost guarantee that.
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  mP

  Fencing:

  JW's don't think anyone other than themselves are "Christian". You never see another church referred to as such in any of the publications, unless it's prefaced with "so-called". Otherwise, they're all referred to as churches of Christendom. So, this really isn't specific to Catholics.

  mP:

  Why would anyone want to be called "Christian" ? Christians have been criminals inflicting pain and horrors on their neighbours since the beginning. It has always spread under pain of death. This not only happened outside of europe but also happened in Europe itself. Nearly every country, that might be called xian was converted under terrorism.
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  mP

  Julia

  Apparently Clement asserted Roman Catholic-type authority and structure over the congregations in the form of letters stating that bishops and elders were to reign over the congregations in about 96. According to the WT, this was still when the apostle John was alive and was sort of a 'restraint' against 'apostate' ideas. However, by that time, the Christian religion appears to have moved its main base from Jerusalem to Rome, where Paul ended up.

  So much for a 'governing body' being in Jerusalem! The religion started there, but that's about it. Once again, History shows the WT up.

  mp:

  You really have to wonder if xianity really started in judea, why they would move to rome so quickly ? Xians like to say jesus had lage numbers of followers, and supposedly they were being fed to lions in rome and so on. What possible advantage would anybody have in leaving the central base of the reliigon and moving straight into the center of government that wants to eliminate it. That doesnt add up if you ask me.