Antichrist? (page 3)

mouthy

Was just thinking of my good friend Dansk ( I miss him muchly)

He had said I should keep reminding newbies of this
so here goes again after all these years, FOR NEWBIES

peacedog

Amazing!! Thanks for bringing this to the top.

Original post reposted here:

Watchtower ,Aug 1st 1981 say
Your attitude toward the wheat like anointed "brothers"of Christ will be the determining factor as to whether you go into "everlasting cutting off"or to receive "Everlasting life ( Math 25:34-36
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Watchtower,July 15th 1991 says
these anointed Christians are ambassadors for Christ, SUBSTITUTING for Christ.
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Deliverance,p202,1926 WTB&TS says
Antichrist is that which is offered as a substitute for Jesus Christ
The Messiah,therefore in opposition to the Messiah
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In Mouthys eyes- they just called themselves the antichrist.Right?

cantleave

Mouthy, Thanks - that is astounding. They admit they are indeed the Antichrist. I'm saving this for any future Judiciai I may be subjected too.

villabolo

Mouthy, very good catch!

Cantleave, go ahead and give that a try if you ever get into a judicial but I'm sure you'll get cut off or they'll just change the subject. The elders are innoculated towards anything including scripture quoting that you may bring up. This is based on my experience. Hope that yours comes out better.

villabolo

peacedog

Actually the Society even referred to themselves as "The Christ". Crazy that they'd do this in the face of Matt 24:4,5:

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

Accoring to the WT$, "The Christ" is themselves (the 144,000) plus the man Jesus:

The word Christ signifies anointed. Anointing means designation to official position in God’s arrangement. The Christ is the instrument or channel for the blessing of mankind. The Christ is composed of Jesus, the great and mighty head, and 144,000 members. ---The Harp of God, 1921, p 187

They are slightly more subtle about it in recent years - probably because of Matt 24. Now they refer to themselves as "the anointed" instead of "the Christ". Yet, as they acknowledged in the Harp of God quoted above, "Christ signifies anointed"; so the doctrine hasn't changed, just their choice of words.

VoidEater

Perverse, ain't it?

sacolton

BADG suggests that the meaning of "helper" be applied at this text, as an ambassador "helps" a sovereign rather than stands in replacement for him. To this end BADG says: "generally to be "huper" someone= to be for someone, be on someone's side [as opposed to be "kata" someone, ie against that one], hence at 2 Cor 5:20 "huper" could = "helpers" thus "As helpers of Christ we beg you..."

The Linguistic And Exegetical Key to the Greek NT [LAEKTTGNT] says: "huper" means "on behalf of" "representing". Robertson, in his "Word Pictures" agrees.

Does it mean anything else? Yes that is why LAEKTTGNT cautions: "Perhaps the preposition also has the meaning of "In place of"

So:

Are "we" the "helpers" of Christ or

Are "we" the "representatives" of Christ or

Are "we", as the Watchtower insists, "in place of" Christ, substituting Him.

I can see two major factors that discredit the Watchtower view.

1 I can find no translation which says that "we" are ambassadors "in place of Christ" or even that "we" are "substitutes" for Him.

2 As BADG and others point out, "huper" can = "in place of, or in substitution for" but only when used "after expressions of suffering, dying, or devoting oneself".

Thus in 2 Cor 5:14 we have the expression "He died "huper" all" which can be translated= "He died as a substitute for" all, or even "He died inbehalfof" all. We can see this in other places such as: Jo 11:50 and Gal 3:13.

So, if in my puny understanding I attempt to translate this section I would hazard:

2 Cor 5:14: "This One died as a substitutefor all"

2 Cor 5:20: " Being on His side,We are ambassadors of Christ, and thus being on Hisside we beg..."

sacolton

John 10:7-9

7 Therefore Jesus said again: “Most truly I say to YOU, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All those that have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage.

Looks like the sheep do not listen to those who substitute for our Lord and Savior.

mouthy

I am bumping this for the newbies....

Wizard of Oz

They are indeed the Antichrist in my book. To me, scripture flies off the pages indicating this premise.

Consider the Book of Jude......appears to me like it was written about my own life&experiences with JW's...... it's short 'n' wont take long....

Luv'n' Thorts......woz

Antichrist?

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