Holy crap. This guy can't attend his brother's wedding and had a judicial committee because of this?! And got disfellowshipped!!
I just read the "disinvited" thread for the first time and see I was mentioned too.
For the record, I was added to the group without my permission.
I previously asked this person twice to stop adding me to jw-related events on FB because that appears on my page for others to see. Then she added me to the AAWA group w/o my permission.
It was not Cedars who did this to me personally. It was another member here.
The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis
by zed is dead 298 Replies latest members private
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rebel8
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zed is dead
I am just now waking up from a long week of overtime. I think I need to address a few issues that have been raised here by Cedars and Marvin. I also appreciate Simon allowing me to post about the ramifications of the outing of faders on his forum.
As most of you that were following this situation that unfolded already know, it was not the initial gaff that was the problem, it was the cover up and obfuscation. I could give two rat's behinds about myself and how I was affected by what transpired with the wAAWAh launch. My radar was set off by how it was affecting others in this community. I was very vocal about wanting the Facebook site brought down immediately. It did not affect me personally, but I recognized the potential for danger to the faders on this board when it happened.
Yes, I was very emotional at the time. I just wanted it down immediately and did everything in my power to make it happen. Yes, I did make the post that Cedars referred to. It was just trying to use shock value to alter his recalcitrant position on letting it stand and be a threat to faders. A lot of people were having a WTF moment at that time , about a group that spoke of wanting to help people exiting cults. Yet they didn't respect the potential danger to those that they exposed to scrutiny.
This post was not about me. It was about Sic. He was the one that I was referencing, and his "body of work" is the one that should be examined.
This is a poster that was lost. If I were Simon, I would be really pissed that a valuable member of this forum is now underground and may never come back. That is what I was posting about.
As for what is my body of work is, it is my friends. I do not get into a pissing match with the Pharisaical members of this forum to prove my personal worth. Both Cedars and Marvin have received their own rewards spouting off about various topics. They have left me non-plussed. Many more before them have done a better job at being standard bearers for the ex-JW community. Leolaia, Alan F., and Farkel come to mind.
Okay now I will address people individually. I will start with Cedars.
You have always seemed like a glory hound. I didn't have a problem with you until your Presidential status with wAWAAh clouded your vision of what is truly important. You are so paranoid and delusional to your own importance, that it was almost laughable! It would be, if you wouldn't have screwed over many people in the same situation as yourself, and showed no remorse.
You are almost insanely concerned with your own anonymity, and will throw others under the bus for your own agenda. You wanted Sic to be your standard bearer, and could care less about how he was suffering because of your personal indifference to his plight. You wanted to use him as a vehicle for your personal aims, and had no problem with him getting screwed over because of your organization's mistakes. For this I find you 100% culpable, and not worthy of respect.
As for you coming on this thread and demanding things of me, I can only think of a few months ago. Many people here wanted you to act quickly to avoid the debacle that happened under your watch. You were either too self-indulged or arrogant to see the damage your pet project was doing to real people. You waited over three weeks to finally take down the offensive group.
For this I hold you personally liable. I view you as beneath contempt.
So when you came back to this board, with your tail between your legs after being ousted from your Presidential status, you lashed out at all your justified naysayers with accusations of us being childish. I could have used many colorful metaphors to let you know what I thought about that at the time, but deferred. I am glad I let you do your own "rope job" on yourself on this thread.
Now, as for your personal accusations, I will address them at this time. I am not petty. I do not wish you dead. You are one of the most melodramatic people I know of, as well as paranoid.
If I really wanted to mess your life up, I could. I know your real identity. But unlike you, I am a man of principal. Even though I think you are beneath contempt, I would never out you. Others might eventually, but I will have no part of it. I stand by my convictions.
I am true to what my core principles are. I am not perfect, but at least I have standards, and have crushed my own ego. If you had half a brain, you would have not posted on this thread. Or as OTWO said, you should have just made a contrite apology. But we can't have the egotistical Cedars humble himself like that! You have to play the elder, demanding information from me at your beck and call.
You wanted me to help you in your most recent "investigation" within 24 hours? That should have been the same litmus test you should have responded to outing faders! I will make you squirm for over 3 weeks to give you any information. Payback is a biotch. Don't ever order me to do anything, you are not man enough or worthy enough for that type of consideration.
This is totally not about me. I suffered personally after Sic told me of the consequences of his being outed for almost two weeks before posting the OP. I refrained from posting a kneejerk reaction.
zed
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cedars
Simon
Now Cedars, you again bring up a post that was deleted as you point out so what is your problem? If it's such a bad thing why are you posting it again? What's more, why did you decide to keep it all this time? Do you have a dossier on everyone who you consider has crossed you detailing all the things they've ever said?
Learn a lesson: apologise, mean it, dont' try to excuse a mistake, don't try to attack the person in return !
I have apologized, I do mean it, and I am not trying to excuse mistakes. The problem is this (from Zed)...
You wanted Sic to be your standard bearer, and could care less about how he was suffering because of your personal indifference to his plight. You wanted to use him as a vehicle for your personal aims, and had no problem with him getting screwed over because of your organization's mistakes.... For this I hold you personally liable. I view you as beneath contempt.
Zed is clearly on a crusade, not against AAWA, not even against the facebook posters who outed Sic in AAWA's name, but against me personally. He holds me "personally liable" and, judging from the above quote, is willing to spread the idea that I deliberately plotted the outing of Sic and others, when in truth I did nothing of the sort. I entrusted the management of AAWA's facebook presense to a few individuals (one in particular) and I was badly let down, but still accepted responsibility and apologised as president when things went wrong.
As I've said elsewhere on this thread, I can only apologise for things I have done. So far it appears the email paraphrased in the OP is a total fabrication since I have no recollection of posting such an email and cannot find it in my sent box. What you call an "attack," I call a defence. I posted what Zed said merely to highlight that his approach to this issue hasn't exactly been balanced historically, and despite my regret for any harm he himself suffered during the debacle perhaps he is not the most level-headed person to be sitting in judgment and serving as an advocate on Sic's behalf.
Even rebel8 who was also harmed in this incident has the graciousness to recognise that I wasn't personally responsible for what happened to her.
It was not Cedars who did this to me personally.
Yes, I was responsible as president, but surely you can recognise a difference?
Simon, I know you personally still aren't satisfied with the measures we put in place at AAWA after May 24th, but the fact is it appears there has been no damage or further outings since April 24th when we shut down the facebook group. AAWA may not be configured to your liking but we have agreed to move on, and I am no part of AAWA anymore even if there are things that should be done differently. All I can do is apologise for things that I DID do wrong, which is what I have done. I don't see how raking over the episode repeatedly is helpful or productive either for Sic, Zed, you or me.
As Cofty has kindly pointed out, sometimes when you try to do something you make mistakes. I am trying to do my best as an activist to bring people out of a cruel organization by awakening them to the facts. I went into AAWA with only the best intentions and certainly NO plans to "out" people as Zed insists. AAWA and I have now gone down seperate paths but I still hope they can achieve something after all the effort I put in during its inception.
I now have JWsurvey with which to occupy myself and do work that I hope will benefit people. I realise that doing this work, and putting myself forward, makes me a target. That is the price you pay when you try to make a difference. I am willing to stand up and take responsibility for the mistakes I make, but I draw the line at automatically melting before each and every accusation levelled at me whether it is substantiated (i.e. my presidency during the facebook crisis, and slowness to close the group) or not (i.e. the email that I did not send, and my deliberately setting out to "out" faders).
Cedars
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LoisLane looking for Superman
Hello Sec Semper Tyrannis, I hope you still come to JWN and read threads, especially this one. I thought Zed is dead, was talking about himself, but no,
it was you, that he was taking about and it was you, that was outed. How are you doing? I, and I am sure many others, are concerned about you.
I just read your opening thread about when you were a little boy, and the abuse you received from your dad.
I am so sorry that happened to you.
I am sorry you were outed on FB, by being added by some half wit twit, that if they had half a brain, they should have known better, not to be presumptuous and add, whoever they wanted.
I am very sorry for the repercussions that happened to you because of that.
You have my every sympathy.
Just Lois in The North Pacific
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rip van winkle
LoisLane, I just want to say I think you are a very kind lady. Your heartfelt inquiry and apology to Sic Semper Tyrannis for all that he suffered was so lovingly expressed. I admire your humility and humanity.
Just Rip Van Winkle on the east coast!!!
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besty
marvin - pls try as hard as you can to keep on topic - your continual tangential questionings are tedious.
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rip van winkle
Cedars, I just want to say I do believe you are sorry about how the events unfolded and the consequences that resulted.
I don't know if you have reread all the emails you received or not for that period of time, but I noticed in SST's email to Zed (that is posted after Zeds op), he said that he sent you the email under a false name. So, that may be the reason (if you are looking for SST) you would not find it.
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OnTheWayOut
Cedars, if you really want to let bygones be bygones and put this behind you, you are going to have to stop apologizing. If someone wants to beat this dead horse a bit more, that's something we do on JWN, but you should just stay away. Stay away because you say you are " willing to stand up and take responsibility for the mistakes [you] make," but every single apology is loaded with "I was responsible, but not personally responsible." Every apology sounds hollow and its time for you to put away the shovel you are digging your own grave with.
If you want to feel that you are not personally responsible, fine and dandy. Draw your line in the sand and stop crossing it. Some people will steer clear of you and some people will let it go and some people will never know about this eventually. But your continually defending yourself in your "apologies" is not helping at all.
Good luck with jwsurvey. While I won't go around warning people to be careful participating, I hope you warn them in a bold statement that if their anonimity is important, (and if you require a valid email addy to participate) they might want to create a new gmail address that their JW people don't know about.
At first, I too read Zed's last comment to say that you deliberately outed someone for your own agenda. Read it again. I think the point is that when an outing situation presented itself to you, you deliberately put BBXB's agenda (making people aware of BBXB) ahead of individuals and their anonimity. (I can already hear another long explanation coming with a "It's not my fault" included- let it go.)
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Simon
Cedars - I think the mistake you're making is trying to explain and defend things too much and make too much out of people's comments that were obviously in anger. Just apologise, don't try to justify or fire shots back.
What I think is annoying people is not having answers. So, if you were not responsible, someone else was but we don't know who decided to setup the facebook group in the first place, who had control over it and then who decided they preferred to keep it open despite all the warnings of real and potential harm.
Until people know then unfortunately as the only 'captive AAWA member' who is communicating people will probably continue to ask for answers. I'm not saying it's right or fair, just understandable from a human-nature point of view.
Maybe the best thing would be to simply direct them to the people responsible?
When it all kicked off people wanted to know who had done the bulk force-adding.
Knowing who decided to keep the group open after that is just a natural follow on.