Why do Jesus lovers accept the OT as god given.

by mP 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    mP: Jesus was not moral. If he was he would have spoken against slavery, but instead he tells stories telling the unfortunate to shutup and accept their fate. The same is true of women and his racist attitudes and tendencies. Jesus is nothing special, he’s just another name that has been reinvented and repurposed.

    You’re absolutely correct that Jesus did not speak out against social injustices. That was not his mission. He was sent into the world to do the will of the Father and to die for the sins of the world, bringing about the great atonement. (See Isa. 53)

    In God’s way of thinking, this life on Earth is just a blip in eternity. It doesn’t make any difference whether you’re a king or a slave, the important thing is being obedient to God and seeking his will in all things. Joseph spent time as a slave in Egypt and he tried to be the best servant he could be. If the Lord sees fit to free you or deliver you from bondage, so much the better, but Jesus wasn’t about being a political revolutionary, which is contrary to what Reza Aslan argues in his recent book, Zealot, The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus wasn’t a radical; he was about serving one’s fellow man and forgiving him. Under the Law of Moses, the animals, birds and, of course, the poor also were cared for.

    The Atonement is the greatest gift that could be given anyone. But God doesn’t always share our values, like diversity, to name one. That’s a manmade value. And though early Christians were forbidden to own slaves, Jesus preached against rebellion and to strive for peace.

    mP: Cold: Don’t forget to show the math and show us how this is humanly possible.

    First of all, I don’t know how many Israelites left Egypt. The numbers used in the scriptures aren’t always that reliable; however, I don’t see that moving three million people would be completely unmanageable. Moses was known for delegating authority, and the Israelites were divided into twelve tribes, each tribe with its captains and organizers.

    One scholar writes:

    When the Israelites were suddenly granted their freedom, it was a glorious day for Jacob's children. But it is one thing to glory in freedom and quite another thing to move a mass of some three million human beings across a bleak and barren wilderness in order to keep that freedom. Moses knew that wilderness. The Israelites did not. It was ugly and violently desolate; windswept during the deadly monsoon season, and sun-drenched to the point of creating a boiling, blistering sterility during six months of the year. Its 120 degree heat could suck the breath of life from every man, woman and child. What would they eat? What would they drink? How would their flocks and herds survive? At the moment, these matters may not have worried the hosts of Israel. They were just grateful to be free. But Moses had reason to be worried. He knew that without these necessities this people might learn through bitter suffering in the wilderness to hate their precious freedom and actually long to return to the flesh pots and slavery of Egypt. The problem for Moses was not merely to get free, but to stay free.

    Also:

    The scriptures declare that this was no small conglomerate of nomadic tribesmen, but a monstrous concourse of humanity which included "600,000 on foot that were men," not counting women and children, the Levites, or the "mixed multitude" which went with them. As we learn elsewhere, this 600,000 constituted the male Israelites over 20 years of age who were fit and able to fight in defense of the others. This host of over half a million men is accurately referred to in Exodus as the "armies" of Israel. They, together with their wives and children (not counting the "mixed multitude") are believed to have constituted a total population of between two and three million people. As we pointed out in chapter 11, in order for the Israelites to have attained such a population in 215 years it would have been necessary for each family in each generation to have averaged around ten children. We also pointed out that when all of the circumstances are taken into consideration, this unexpected expansion in population is entirely plausible.

  • mP
    mP

    mP: Cold: Don’t forget to show the math and show us how this is humanly possible.

    Cold

    First of all, I don’t know how many Israelites left Egypt. The numbers used in the scriptures aren’t always that reliable; however, I don’t see that moving three million people would be completely unmanageable.

    mP:

    I wasnt referring to whether 3 million leaving was a possibility, i was showing that it is impossible for jacobs family of 70 to become 3 million in just four generations or 200 years. I have given scriptures to back this. its there in b&white.

  • mP
    mP

    Cold:

    You’re absolutely correct that Jesus did not speak out against social injustices. That was not his mission. He was sent into the world to do the will of the Father and to die for the sins of the world, bringing about the great atonement. (See Isa. 53)

    mP:

    SO why does Jesus tell us to be obedient slavs and pay our taxes on multiple occassions ? Why is he so concerned that Rome gets its money and has its slaves ?

    Isa 53 does not identify jesus.

    53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    mP:

    jesus never went to prison.

    53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

    mP:

    Jesus spoke at his trial. One famous example being when he was asked is he the king of the jews and he replied you said it etc. Another fail.

    The other scriptures never mention his name, title, or anything prophecy anything that he would do. i wont comment about dying for our sins, because i have already shown major portions of the text are a mismatch.

  • mP
    mP

    Cold:

    And though early Christians were forbidden to own slaves, Jesus preached against rebellion and to strive for peace.

    mP: What scripture shows this ? You are actually wrong, because Paul in Philemon tells the run away slave( sorry cant recall his name, its starts with O) to return to his master. P never condemns the master etc. You have just made that statement up.

  • mP
    mP

    Cold:

    Jesus wasn’t a radical; he was about serving one’s fellow man and forgiving him. Under the Law of Moses, the animals, birds and, of course, the poor also were cared for.

    mP:

    You mean like the law to wipe the amelkites or the other law about selling slaves. The tex tis dishonest because it fails to mention the cruetlies the bible allows for non jewish slaves. jewish slaves were protected to some extent by different laws.

    please dont tell me what others have said point to the bible itself. we dont need others to gloss over what we can read from the bible itself.

  • Laika
    Laika

    The slave was Onesimus.

    The NT is not exactly without it's difficult parts, Revelation for example. Whereas lots of the OT speaks of a loving God, i.e a lot of the Psalms. I don't think it's that simple.

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    revelation was written by some dude on a bad meth trip. why would anyone read that nonsense.

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    My grandparents and aunts and uncles were all jesus freaks. They were simple people. Some of my uncles couldn't read but they were "traveling evangelists" and musicians, They liked to hear themselves talk. Kind of the flip side of the jeho's i guess. My dad worked so very hard to live very far away from (the jesus freaks) and not associate with them. Kind of the flip side of what jeho's do to people. It's not the best (because i never really knew my family or relatives) but i was really well adjusted....until i tried to help a jeho. After 7 years of trying to help a jeho family....i'm pretty much a PTS victim myself. Just about anything sets me off.

    But i got to stay strong for my 2 little girls.....

    Ive come to the conclusion you can't help somebody that doesn't want to be helped. and it takes 2 people to make a relationship work. it took me a long time to figure that out with the jehos. When i finally accepted that they are just narcissists and narcissistic suppliers supporting the narcissists it made it a lot easier for me to accept things.

    The only thing i can control with a narcissist is the narcissistic supply that i give them. That's the only thing i can control.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    mP - "Why do Jesus lovers accept the OT as god given?"

    The vast majority of fundamentalist Christians are quite authoritarian, and there's a lot of stuff in the OT that fits comfortably with that.

  • mP
    mP

    vidiot:

    exactly its amazing how much they will defend their wishful right to be ruled (badly and cruelly) by authoritarian evil men with raw ambition in their eyes.

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