IQ and Theism

by DJS 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  FlyingHighNow

  No real surprise: desire to learn involves questioning and critiquing things, not just accepting any dogma that is told to you.

  Religious belief, that is the acceptance of something without any reason, evidence or logic whatsoever is not compatible with learning or intelligence.

  I'm surprised that anyone would think that people don't reason, look at evidence or use logic when deciding whether they believe in God or some type of higher being. A significant percentage of scientists believe in some kind of higher being. It really isn't an either or thing. As in, you either use logic, reason or evidence OR you believe in God or some kind of higher being." As if the two are exclusive of each other and at polar opposites.
• 

  GromitSK

  I'm not sure religous belief is quite that simple Simon (sorry lol). Many religious people will explain the reason why they hold their beliefs. There is often logic behind it although it always seems to be based on a lot of assumptions.
• 

  GromitSK

  I'm not sure religous belief is quite that simple Simon (sorry lol). Many religious people will explain the reason why they hold their beliefs. There is often logic behind it although it always seems to be based on a lot of assumptions.
• 

  scotoma

  Those of you who are trying to rebut the scientific findings in the META study involving 63 studies as mentioned in DJS post are doing one of the stupidest things from a scientific viewpoint. You are committing the fallacy of anecdotal evidence.

  Do you really think you know what your are talking about when you put forth your own "exceptional case" and claim that it carries any kind of significant weight compared to the studies mentioned above?

  Belief in God doesn't mean you aren't intelligent. It means you have become captive to a cultural "meme". You made the leap of faith and jumped over the grand canyon of "fact". You did that because of emotional needs. You needed whatever security that gave you. Now, after living comfortably with that paradigm you don't have the guts to go down into the canyon and walk the many trails and examine the details.
• 

  Resistance is Futile

  Well that's a group of studies that are sure to rub a few people the wrong way.

  FlyingHighNow: A significant percentage of scientists believe in some kind of higher being.

  It's true that there is a statistically significant number of scientists that believe in either God or a higher power, however, it should be noted that religiosity among scientists pales in comparison with the general public.

  http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/

  "A survey of scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in May and June 2009, finds that members of this group are, on the whole, much less religious than the general public. Indeed, the survey shows that scientists are roughly half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher power".
• 

  tec

  Belief in God doesn't mean you aren't intelligent. It means you have become captive to a cultural "meme". You made the leap of faith and jumped over the grand canyon of "fact". You did that because of emotional needs. You needed whatever security that gave you. Now, after living comfortably with that paradigm you don't have the guts to go down into the canyon and walk the many trails and examine the details.

  What a lot of assumptions!

  Are you sure you are not basing any of the above on your own anecdotal evidence?

  How anyone can think that the people here have not examined the details of their beliefs is beyond me. If that were true... no one would be here to begin with.

  Just because someone has come to a different conclusion than you does not make them wrong... nor does it mean that they did not examine their beliefs.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Not so fast RIF:

  http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/13/are-top-scientists-really-so-atheistic-look-at-the-data/

  

  

  CURRENT ISSUE

  Have a look at the link above. It's an easy, short read. This is just one study that disagrees with the link you posted.

  "Elaine Howard Ecklund is a sociologist at Rice University; we cited her work on the topic of science and religion in Unscientific America. Now, she is out with a book that is going to seriously undercut some widespread assumptions out there concerning the science religion relationship."

  The book, soon to be out from Oxford University press, is entitled Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really Think. And let me give you just a taste of her answers, from the book jacket (I haven’t dug in yet):

  In the course of her research, Ecklund surveyed nearly 1,700 scientists and interviewed 275 of them. She finds that most of what we believe about the faith lives of elite scientists is wrong. Nearly 50 percent of them are religious. Many others are what she calls “spiritual entrepreneurs,” seeking creative ways to work with the tensions between science and faith outside the constraints of traditional religion…..only a small minority are actively hostile to religion. Ecklund reveals how scientists–believers and skeptics alike–are struggling to engage the increasing number of religious students in their classrooms and argues that many scientists are searching for “boundary pioneers” to cross the picket lines separating science and religion.

  You can learn more about Ecklund’s book here, and order it here.

  Incidentally, the universities whose scientists were surveyed for the book are: Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Penn, U.C. Berkeley, UCLA, U. of Chicago, University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign, U. Michigan, U. Minnesota, UNC Chapel Hill, U. Washington-Seattle, U. Wisconsin-Madison, U.S.C., Washington University, and Yale.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  An article on mistaken notions and myths about scientists:

  http://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2013/mar/04/myth-scientists-religion-hating-atheists
• 

  Resistance is Futile

  Nearly 50 percent of them [scientists] are religious.

  Sounds quite similar to what the pewforum reported.

  Have a look at the link above. It's an easy short read. This is just one study that disagrees with the link you posted.

  I'm not sure I follow. Specifically how does it disagree with the survey conducted by the pewforum?

  Admittedly without knowing how Ecklund determined what constitutes "religious" we really can't say if her findings agree with or disagree with the findings from the pewforum. If she defined religious as believing in God or a higher power than her findings are almost identical to the one I posted.

  "Indeed, the survey shows that scientists are roughly half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher power. According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power. By contrast, 95% of Americans believe in some form of deity or higher power".
• 

  Resistance is Futile

  An article on mistaken notions and myths about scientists: http://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2013/mar/04/myth-scientists-religion-hating-atheists

  Thank you for posting the link. As the article pointed out, it's very important to note that not all scientists are atheists. Although it does come off as somewhat of a straw man argument, i.e., have you ever actually heard someone make the claim that all scientists are atheists? I certainly never have.

  What the Guardian article failed to address is that there is a massive difference in the percentage of scientists that do not believe in God compared to the general public.

  41% of scientists do not believe in God or a higher power compared to only 4% of the general public, according to the PewForum. That's not myth, it's scientific evidence. How that data makes us feel is somewhat irrelevant to its validity.