I'm a woman who left the witnesses because it wasn't logical. Seems like that trumped emotional ties to me. Every woman is different. Why generalize?
Why are the moms so attached to religion?
by ILoveTTATT 39 Replies latest jw friends
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Sapphy
Women are more emotional than men?
Men think and women feel?
Violence and agression is an outward expression of anger, which is an emotion. Something like 90% of violent crimes are committed by men. Maybe we should be asking "why are men so emotional?"
On the topic in question, this is an interesting paper:
http://pure.rhul.ac.uk/portal/files/4124634/Are_women_more_religious_than_men.pdf
TL:DR It is suggested that the general conclusion that women are more religious than men is culture-specific, and contingent on the measurement
method used.
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Frazzled UBM
BU2B - you are in a very similar position to me. My wife's reasoning is very similar to yours and she will not question whether the GB and the WTBS are who they claim to be. She is alos a born-in. I share your frustration - my head is now flat from constantly banging it against the wall. Frazzled
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jgnat
I like how you think, Frazzled. I am also married to an emotional thinker, but he's a convert. Stubborn as all get-out.
As soon as your wife starts spouting WT dogma like a mantra, you've triggered her cognitive dissonance defence mechanisms. Change the subject and talk about her weight, the weather, anything else. With practice, you can snap her out of the cult persona.
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ILoveTTATT
I think it is the woman's interest in family, community, connectedness that drives her to stick it out longer than the man.
soical and emotional manipulation - making you feel bad if you say or do the wrong thing etc. and I suspect that women are perhaps a bit more
susceptible to this than men.
there are much stronger emotions tied to even the most instinctual aspects of the relationship (aka sex) than for a man
It is definitely an emotional issue for my wife. JWs in a sense "rescued" her from a life of casual sex, drug abuse, alcoholism. etc. They gave her a
direction, a hope, a purpose in life, things she never felt she had the remotest chance at.
She doesn't give much thought to doctrine, so the flip-flops and inconsistencies don't really matter to her. It is an emotional connection - it feels right, so it must be right.
She thinks they at least have the basics right, no immortal soul, paradise earth, no war etc.. and because of this she feels it must be "the truth"
I appreciate the quotes. It seems like you with your wives (and I with my mom) have an uphill battle. There is no TATT to them, since it doesn't matter. They will stick to JW's despite any logical argument. Fundamentally, even if you are proven right, you are attacking things that every woman protects tooth-and-nail: the family's unity, possibly the children, the marriage. The stability in their lives.
This creates a very difficult situation. No matter how logically right you are, it won't matter.
So let's use the analogy of an abusive husband/boyfriend: What helps women break free from them? If they love the man, they will forgive many things, but everyone has their breaking point.
Perhaps the man is their only income source. Many times, even though the man is cheating on the woman, especially in third-world countries, the wife will not leave the man. Doing so would be financial suicide. Also, some women stay in a marriage like that "for the children"...
I am just bouncing ideas here...
Please keep them coming!!
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jgnat
You are over-generalizing somewhat. In case you didn't notice, I'm the female side of this mixed relationship, and my husband is the emotional decision maker. Nevertheless, I do attend church regularly.
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adamah
Ilovettatt-
I appreciate the quotes. It seems like you with your wives (and I with my mom) have an uphill battle. There is no TATT to them, since it doesn't matter. They will stick to JW's despite any logical argument. Fundamentally, even if you are proven right, you are attacking things that every woman protects tooth-and-nail: the family's unity, possibly the children, the marriage. The stability in their lives.
This creates a very difficult situation. No matter how logically right you are, it won't matter.
Yup, nail, meet head of hammer.
I'd say the LEAST important factor in the 'logic vs emotion' debate IS the logical factor, since JWs increasingly are angling their appeals to EMOTIONS, so those who are moreso swayed by emotions are going to be attracted to join.
Any anti-JW tactic is only likely to FAIL if it's based on LOGIC, but even if it's based on EMOTION, if it triggers an ANGER response. Directing anger against "their Mother" is likely to back-fire or be ineffective, since the GB is INTENTIONALLY trying to create that maternal bond with members (except it's an idealized form of mother, since the image is virtual to most members, and can do virtually no wrong to harm the projected idealized image in their heads).
So while angry screeds and diatribes ranting against the GB are useful as vents and for blowing off steam, they're also not likely to convince anyone who's actually IN the JWs and lurking, since it's only going to trigger the protective barriers mentioned (eg jgnat mentioned cult-talk, etc). More effective is focusing on upbeat POSITIVES of leaving, and the benefits of getting beyond the hurt/pain of being IN.
Since the GB uses emotions to keep members IN, all appeals should be targeted to member's emotions, eg by focusing on the self-inflicted harm done to the members themselves and to their children who are NOT being shunned, but are active JWs. These young ones are being forced to learn to become participants in how the group-think game is played, and likewise are being taught to allow themselves to be controlled by THEIR emotions (primarily, their fear of being excluded from the group, and a constant fear of rejection by their own family). Do the parents REALLY want to train their OWN children to become unthinking cogs in the JWs?
Adam
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ILoveTTATT
@jgnat, saphy, mahtaw:
I owe you an apology. Like I said at the beginning, "please don't get me wrong"... guess you did...
There's a reason why stereotypes are formed... it's because whatever the stereotype is, there have been many people that have done exactly the same thing as the stereotype. I am not saying that ALL women act the way I am saying, I am just saying that there are sufficient women who have acted in the same way to form a pattern. I am just noticing the pattern, not making a blanket statement.
In my mom's case, in FrazzledUBM's case, sir82, BU2B, and many other's case, what I am saying does make sense.
That being said:
@jgnat: your tips are actually pretty good!
For everyone:
Any ideas as to how to help women, specifically, to come out of JW's? Do Hassan's suggestions work equally well for men and women? Any women here who have successfully convinced other women to come out of JW's? That would be an interesting viewpoint. Perhaps men are doing something wrong, since from what I have read in this board and from personal experience, it is much harder to get a woman to come out of JW's than it is for men.
I wonder if I can get Barbara Anderson to comment on this. I would love her take on this. Was it ever a doctrinal issue? Would you have gone out if you hadn't seen firsthand the situation that led to more and more child abuses?
Thanks to all, and sorry if I offend some. I am honestly just trying to gain understanding on things.
ILTTATT
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freeflyingfaerie
ILoveTTATT~
I am a women, an INFP, and a mother.
My emotions are what initially caused me to leave!
Feelings of visceral, heavy stress to do with the constant theocratic schedule and expectations and social tedium left me emotionally drained.
I asked my self why I felt this burdened, if this was necessary....
Then I began thinking critically about the organization itself, stopped just swallowing everything that was spoonfed me. Instead, I took a good look around, stopped studying, commenting, going in field service, associating so much...and noticed that I felt much better! i found answers about doctrine, jw history, all the lies after the fact
And this cycle of feeling discomfort > thinking about how to ease it > following that > and feeling better continued and eventually brought me to feeling totally convinced and relieved to walk away for good..
My love for my children also contributed to me leaving! I didn't want them to grow up losing themselves in the mind-control. I choose that over the superficial comfort of social 'support'. I couldn't care less what 'other moms' do
Maybe UBMs could encourage their (usually) wives to relax, see how it feels to focus on the moment, simple pleasures in life. That relief for them may leave a much greater impact initially on some...then, in time, maybe they will ask themselves why they are chasing their own tails
(Narcissistic Supply, I hope you are joking.)
By the way, my three brothers are all still 'in'...I'm the black ewe of the family ...hardy har har
It's been hard as hell at times, lots and lots and lots of tears, lost relationships... but here I am living free
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Crazyguy
This religion is great for women that are insecure and of course men tend to be more critical minded probably because men tend to be more analytical. Woman of course tend to be more submissive and followers and will put up with all sorts of abuse that men would not. All these things plays perfectly into this religion. And the idea that god would give a gift of salvation to us without anything in return, no way thinks a insecure woman or man, there must be more to it. Plays well for men and women that are self loathing. jmo