Searching for Watchtower about working for / with disfellowshipped person

by confusedandalone 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  confusedandalone

  Evening,

  I wanted to know if anyone knows which watchtower articles speak about working with or for a disfellowshipped person. It would appear that there is now a huge witch hunt regarding this because of my recent situation. I do not care if they leave but I am sending some info to my lawyer and I would like to include any pertinent material that is published regarding this.

  Of course, I would look for myself but I have burned all my literature and deleted the WTLib.

  If anyone oculd help in this regard please let me know.

  Thank You
• 

  confusedandalone

  FOUND IT

  *** w81 9/15 pp. 23-24 Disfellowshiping—How to View It ***

  COOPERATING WITH THE CONGREGATION

  17 Though Christians enjoy spiritual fellowship when they discuss or study the Bible with their brothers or interested persons, they would not want to have such fellowship with an expelled sinner (or one who has renounced the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses, disassociating himself). The expelled person has been ‘rejected,’ being “self-condemned” because of “sinning,” and those in the congregation both accept God’s judgment and uphold it. Disfellowshiping, however, implies more than ceasing to have spiritual fellowship.—Titus 3:10, 11.

  18 Paul wrote: “Quit mixing in company . . . , not even eating with such a man.” (1 Cor. 5:11) A meal is a time of relaxation and socializing. Hence, the Bible here rules out social fellowship, too, such as joining an expelled person in a picnic or party, ball game, trip to the beach or theater, or sitting down to a meal with him. (The special problems involving a relative who has been disfellowshiped are considered in the following article.)

  19 Sometimes a Christian might feel under considerable pressure to ignore this Bible advice. His own emotions may create the pressure, or it may be brought to bear on him by acquaintances. For instance, one brother was pressured to officiate at the marriage of two disfellowshiped persons. Could that service be rationalized as a mere kindness? One could feel that way. But why were his services wanted, rather than those of the town mayor or other state marrying agent? Was it not because of his standing as a minister of God and his ability to offer marriage counsel from God’s Word? To give in to such pressure would involve him in fellowshiping with the couple, persons who had been expelled from the congregation for their ungodly way.—1 Cor. 5:13.

  20 Other problems arise in connection with business or employment. What if you were employed by a man who now was expelled by the congregation, or you employed a person to whom that happened? What then? If you were contractually or financially obliged to continue the business relationship for the present, you certainly would now have a different attitude toward the disfellowshiped individual. Discussion of business matters with him or contact on the job might be necessary, but spiritual discussions and social fellowship would be things of the past. In that way you could demonstrate your obedience to God and have a protective barrier for yourself. Also, this might impress on him how much his sin has cost him in various ways.—2 Cor. 6:14, 17.
• 

  zound

  They are implying that you should quit if your boss is disfellowshipped, or you should sack any disfellowshipped person. Notice the phrase 'continue the business relationship for the present'. Meaning as soon as any contracts run out that employee is out on his ass.

  "This might impress on him how much his sin has cost him in various ways."

  Being practically ignored by his employee or employer, and or being sacked or sacking someone. That'll teach em.
• 

  jemba

  I hope everything is Ok for you and your wife CAA, hopefully you can let us know how your new employee is going soon.
• 

  gma-tired2

  Confusedandalone, I hope the WT Elders are prepared to support all these JWs who are convinced to quit. I wouldn't want to quit a good job when most are only finding low paying part time jobs. When my husband and I were active we were critisized for my husband missing meeting to work, but no one offered a job or help. As those who quit be very understanding, kind and wish them luck supporting families, as many won't find jobs quickly and if you quit a job you don't collect unemployment
• 

  KiddingMe

  My interpretation--

  "financially obliged to continue the business relationship for the present" --this statement makes it a conscience matter, determined by the non DF'd/DA'd party's sense of financial obligation. Notice it doesn't necessarily require the two parties to be "financially obliged" to each other but only "financially obliged to the continue the business relationship". There are numerous reasons to feel this way i.e. to pay your monthly bills, child support, to help fund the Worldwide Work. There could be a sense of financial obligation because of the amount of time and money invested into the company or important relationships with clients that may affect the company bottom line--No one can define this but the employee and employer.

  So according to the article above, the 2 reasons in which one can remain in a business relationship with a DF'd/DA'd person is 1) contractually obliged or 2) financially obliged (for whatever reason). Only the person (or head of thier household) the other person in the business relationship can determine when they are no longer financially obliged. I may feel financially obliged to work for your company for the rest of my life, someone else may not. You may feel financially obliged to keep a DF'd employee on staff because you've invested a lot in them, someone else may not.

  Anyone else pursuing this is imposing their own conscience on the matter and we are informed that, "those of us with a more restrictive conscience should not be critical of others, insisting that all view matters of conscience just as they do (Romans 14:10) Really, the conscience is best used as an internal judge, not a license to judge others. Remember Jesus' words: "Stop judging that you may not be judged."(Mathew 7:1) All in the congregation want to avoid making an issue of personal matters of conscience. Instead, we seek ways to promote love and unity, building one another up, not tearing one another down." Romans 14 :19---lv chap. 2 pp. 20-21 par. 16.

  I agree with Zound that the wording "for the present" is there to imply or pressure a person to feel that as soon as they are no longer "contractually or financially obliged" they need to terminate the business relationship. Still there is no set timeframe stated nor does it forbid.There is a lot of implying going on but the only consequence they set forth is "you certainly would now have a different attitude toward the disfellowshiped individual."

  The way the section is worded, it would require alot for the WT to be held responsible for anything legally, but the local elders or any persons imposing their conscience, that another story. They are taking it to another level.

  I know a C.O.B.E. that currently employ a couple of DF'd persons. One has been DF'd for about 10 years and the is DF'd for the second time. It's got to be a conscience matter or he we not still be considered a fine example for the congregation he presides over.
• 

  JakeM2012

  Confused and alone, I'm sorry to hear your latest problems, but thankful that you keep us updated.

  As noted before, I have seen this before, the elders get into this mind set of you will be ruled or we will ruin you. Rule or Ruin.

  If the witchhunt is continueing and workers are leaving, personally I would immediately start searching for new employees. Again, sorry about your worries.
• 

  KiddingMe

  A bit older but found another one.

  ***w 52 12/1 p. 735 Questions From Readers***

  Is it proper for a Christian witness of Jehovah to have business relationships with one who has been disfellowshiped?—F.G.,California.

  The circumstances of each case might influence the answer. Generally speaking, it would be desirable for us to have no contact with disfellowshiped persons, either in business or in social and spiritual ways. If it is possible to make new business connections relative to employer, employee, the acquiring of raw materials or the performance of needed services, and so forth, it would be advisable to do so. However, if circumstances do not allow for this as you continue to make necessary provision for yourself or family in a material way, then you may decide to continue the business contact with a disfellowshiped person. But if you deem this necessary, you must be very careful to see to it that you do not associate with the ousted one and do not discuss spiritual matters with him. Always bear in mind that our spiritual interests are of far greater concern to us than material interests, and follow closely the recommendations of the congregation regarding one who has been disfellowshiped. We safeguard not only our own personal spiritual interests by so doing, but also those of our brothers, and especially those of weaker ones or new ones who might be easily stumbled by our contact with disfellowshiped persons.
• 

  bigmac

  20+ years ago i started working for a JW--and his wife---who owned a company making replacement windows ( double-glazing ). i knew the couple--well--from years before--when i was still active. they both liked me still.

  i was their sales rep. i did well for them.

  after a few weeks--the elders found out about this arrangement.... my JW boss called me in--he was very distressed--he said he had been told to get rid of me---or they would get rid of him !!!--and his wife--because she was his business partner.
• 

  Julia Orwell

  Oh dear Confused, I do hope they don't try to ruin you over this. What of the young lady who used to be in Bethel? How is she taking all this? I'd hate to see families suffer economically because they are pressured by a bunch of religious twats.