by Sammy Jenkis 23 Replies latest social entertainment
So I was watching this on Netflix today and had only really heard about the comparisons between JC and Horus in Religulous. It amazed me how incredibly credulous I was as a witness- I would never have watched a video so full of "lies" had I still been in.
Or maybe I'm willing to believe anything now....
For those that have seen it- how convinced were you with the comparisons between Jesus and the Zodiac?
I have seen quite some parts of it but it is mostly a load of bullocks... comparing the life of Jesus with other gods/myths is only possible if you have a VERY WIDE interpretation and it lacks in a lot of fields.
DeWald:
So why did Jesus die on the Spring Equinox ? Why did Jesus have 12 apostles ? Why did early xians so easily accept the birth of the sun on xmas as Jesus ? Why did Justin Martyr admit that xians worship the sun and planets just like everybody else ? Why did Josephus say the 12 tribes of israel are the jewish equivalent of the zodiac ? There are a zillion examples of astro theology in the bible and jewish culture.
Why is the story of Samson (which means god man) so similar to that of hercules ?
Which points in Z are wrong ?
What DeWaandalar said. Zeitgeist and all of those god-myth comparisons are false claims. There have been a handful of threads done on the subject here.
However, there is one thing, for me, that should have been a red flag, when I originally came across these claims. That is, making one of the comparisons that both Christ and Horus were born on December 25th. Well, as everyone on this forum knows, Christ was not born on that day... and so anyone doing any sort of valid research SHOULD have known this, rather than put it in as something He shared with Horus. Anyone doing their research would have known how that happened. But they aren't worried about valid research; and if their 'case' against Christ was so strong, they wouldn't have to pad it with false claims to begin with.
Here is a good site (also encylopedia mythica is a good reference): http://www.kingdavid8.com/_articles.php?subject_id=77a47740-5d82-11e1-a8dd-a5147307c7d3
Peace,
tammy
TEC
That is, making one of the comparisons that both Christ and Horus were born on December 25th
mP:
Everybody knows the bible does not give details of Jesus birthday but that still leaves open the problem question,
"why did xians accept dec 25 as Jesus birthday if it was so wrong" ?
Why cant they see using a pagan sun celebration as Jesus birthday would be wrong ?
TEC
Interestingly the bible itself says jesus came out of Egypt. It implies he went there to learn stuff during the lost years.
TEC
But they aren't worried about valid research; and if their 'case' against Christ was so strong, they wouldn't have to pad it with false claims to begin with.
mP:
Just because z got a lots or a few facts connecting Jesus to mythology doesnt mean the entire argument is wrong. We have more than one christian church does that make the bible wrong ?
Yeah, when it comes right down to it, Zeitgeist IS entertainment designed to entertain the lay public (painful as it may be to call watching the pseudo-intellectual equivalent of TMZ as being "entertainment": more like torture for your brain!). Zeitgeist is trying to create and sell its own 'brand' (which it HAS done: there's been a few sequels, lapped up by gullible buyers who like this type of speculative "conspiracy hypothesis" stuff).
The Zeitgeist movie ironically engages in the same tactic that the Bible does: it mixes a historical background with TONS of speculation to create interesting stories. The producers of Zeitgeist learned the message of the Bible well.
The problem is Zeitgeist clearly oversteps the available evidence, eg claiming Jesus never existed and is the complete product of an ancient conspiracy (and the proper term is "conspiracy hypothesis", BTW, since there's no evidence to support the conclusion). Is it any wonder Alex Jones is a BIG fan of Zeitgeist?
It's a tad reminisent of those critics who claim the Tanakh is purely a product of the writer's imagination, without any historical basis to it, done to support Jewish claims to land which Palestinians also claim. These types of revisionist claims are going overboard without evidence to support, as archaeologist Bill Devers has pointed out that this IS available evidence that supports SOME of the claims in the Torah (eg Hebrew ruins are found in Palestine), although not ALL of the claims are true (eg there's no evidence for an Exodus from Egypt; instead, archaeological evidence points to indigenous Hebrew populations living in Palestine even LONG BEFORE the Exodus is said to have occurred).
If "Jesus never existed" didn't set off your alarm bells, Segment 2 and 3 of Zeitgeist SHOULD serve as a HUGE RED FLAG that the producer isn't concerned with examining the evidence that interferes with the story he wants to tell, but instead chooses to profit from the whole, "secrets THEY don't want you to know!" nonsense by claiming that 9/11 was an inside job, and the last segment on the optional nature of paying taxes (apparently Christian media troll Kent Hovind was a true believer of this claim, too, and is now serving time in a Fed Prison for his willful misunderstanding of Fed tax laws).
Zeitgeist SHOULD serve as a warning to all persons who THINK of themselves as rational and logical that the messages we MOST should scrutinize are the ones we most WANT to be true. People who show the ability to reason clearly suddenly shut down and turn off THEIR ability to think rationally when it's THEIR beliefs being examined! It's called cognitive selection bias, seeing only what we WANT to see, rather than see what actually IS. Your wants and wishes have NOTHING to do with whether something is TRUE or not, eg I may WANT to win the lottery, but random chance doesn't care what we WANT.
Unfortunately the over-reaction of skeptical viewers is to "throw out the baby with the bathwater", and it ALL gets dismissed as bollocks, but that's unwarranted, since it ignores how legends often grow out of kernels of truths. You have to decide if you want to let your desired conclusions LEAD the evidence, or to let the conclusions FOLLOW the evidence.
If you don't understand and/or accept that idea, you're only doomed to keep falling for the same nonsense the JWs were selling, only different flavors and permutations of it, time and time again.
PS Religiousity is slightly better, but AGAIN it's ENTERTAINMENT, not scholarly research and study. Even better are the movies and TV documentaries made by Richard Dawkins (Enemies of Reason, Root of All Evil, etc), as although it's ALSO entertainment, his claims are backed by citations and evidence; he's a biologist who shows more respect for evidence than the producers of Zeitgeist, and doesn't just go with what he WANTS to be true.
Adam
Zeitgeist SHOULD serve as a warning to all persons who THINK of themselves as rational and logical that the messages we MOST should scrutinize are the ones we most WANT to be true. Your wants and wishes have NOTHING to do with whether something is TRUE or not, eg I want to win the lottery, but random chance doesn't care what we WANT.
Yes, agreed. Ironically, many years ago, that is the reason I researched the claims they were making, instead of ignoring them. I wanted to ignore them, but then called myself a coward and faced the claims... which turned out to be false. 'Though I regretted having doubted in fear at all, I learned a lesson... that there IS nothing I need TO fear. I have not been afraid to research anything since, and nothing ever disproves my Lord, or God. There are things we don't understand (yet), but that is all.
Peace,
tammy
TEC said-
Ironically, many years ago, that is the reason I researched the claims they were making, instead of ignoring them. I wanted to ignore them, but then called myself a coward and faced the claims... which turned out to be false.
You're missing my point then, as YOU threw the baby out with the bathwater, using the Zeitgeist hyperbolic nonsense as your justification for believing. You used poorly-researched and fraudulent evidence to SUPPORT your beliefs, which is the equivalent of strawman fallacy, attacking Zeitgeist's fallacious presentation of pagan beliefs to confirm YOUR Xian beliefs.
Have you read Reza Aslan's "Zealot" yet? It's factual, well-researched, meticulously foot-noted, and best yet, it won't rock your faith (Reza is Islamic, as it fits his world view and makes "sense" to him). His work WILL likely provide you with information on the cultural context of the time in which Jesus lived, and it likely will give you greater insight into the words Jesus spoke, and WHY he said what he did. It's a good starter read for learning more about the historical basis of Jesus, if you have only stayed in the shallow end of the wading pool by confining yourself to devotional stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL6E4eMX-4k
Adam
