Zeitgeist, anyone seen it? (page 2)

tec

You're missing my point then, as YOU threw the baby out with the bathwater, using the Zeitgeist hyperbolic nonsense as your justification for believing.
You used poorly-researched and fraudulent evidence to SUPPORT your beliefs, which is the equivalent of strawman fallacy, attacking Zeitgeist's fallacious presentation of pagan beliefs to confirm YOUR Xian beliefs.

LOL, Adamah. You have misunderstood.

I didn't use Zeitgeist nonsense as my justification for beleiving. I already believed in Christ at that time, that based on the truth in His teachings and other personal things. (this was before I understood that one can hear his voice) Their claims 'challenged' my belief, but those challenges proved baseless.

My faith is based on Christ, and is even more sure now... not because of someone else's false claims... but because of evidence of Christ.

I have not read zealot... though I have read the Quran. I will check out your link.

Peace,

tammy

Crazyguy

This documentary about christianity was based on writings originally by a guy named Gerald Massey, a I level druid and an evolutionist. He travel from engalnd to Egypt and then came back an wrote a bunch of lies.

tec

I watched your link, and it is an interesting conversation that they are having. Interesting points, though I do know many of them... agree with some and not with others. A lot is supposition and interpretation though, same as all those other scholars who write books on the man, 'Jesus'. Which is why I tend NOT to read the various books that 'scholars' write about him. I would rather let Him teach me, rather than depend upon others' conclusions and/or suppositions, which are based on others' conclusions/suppositions, etc, etc.

(Now one thing this guy said in his video as something that is KNOWN, is that Christ was illiterate. We don't know that at all. It is a good example of supposition... perhaps based on what he thinks is 'more likely', but that doesn't make it true. The accounts that we have about Him do show otherwise. He read. He wrote on the ground (the stoning of the adulterous account) )

Peace,

tammy

Laika

I've only seen the section on 9/11. If the rest of it is as bad as that it's not worth my time.

adamah

(Now one thing this guy said in his video as something that is KNOWN, is that Christ was illiterate. We don't know that at all. It is a good example of supposition... perhaps based on what he thinks is 'more likely', but that doesn't make it true. The accounts that we have about Him do show otherwise. He read. He wrote on the ground (the stoning of the adulterous account)

Well, no kidding, but, duh? Being that ALL the information we have is based on 2,000 historic accounts, it ALL is not KNOWN (I know: don't start in with your "hearing his voice" bit, which despite your protests, is completely and utterly worthless to revealing any reliable INFORMATION on Jesus' life for anyone but you to build your FAITH, another fudamental contradiction, since it should serve to build your belief based on ACTUAL evidence provided that confirms your belief based on Inspired Knowledge, NOT faith).

Aslan gets into the topic of what IS known about literacy rates of ancient peoples living in Palestine in that time, esp someone who was raised in his small town. He also discusses Jesus' writing on the ground, and the ambiguous meaning of the Greek word used, which doesn't clarify whether Jesus was writing or DRAWING a picture of a donkey. If you want to know more, then you'll have to read the book (maybe I'll post a link to a free PDF, if there's any interest).

That disclaimer of not KNOWING goes without saying, and it's only because you hold a flawed presupposition that something could ABSOLUTELY be KNOWN that requires that kind of blatently-obvious clarification. I assume he doesn't use the more awkward phrase, "in all probability" since that's kinda the point: he wrote the book for LAYPERSONS, and that kind of phraseology puts off many readers as overly-pedantic.

Instead, many people operate on the presupposition that NOTHING is KNOWN for sure, and UNKNOWABLE with certainty, even what we THINK we know (thanks to the ability of the brain to fool itself, AKA delusions). If people are uncomfortable with uncertainty, oh, well: that's part of the allure of religion, offering false claims of absolute KNOWING.

Instead, rationalists approach with the belief that no knowledge is above questioning, if there's sufficient reason to think otherwise (and not just a wild hunch), eg if someone claims the Moon is made of cheese AND presents compelling evidence to support the claim, then I MUST accept that claim. To fight against evidence is silly.

Adam

tec

I have a question for you, but its off-topic, so I'm going to start a new thread for the question without derailing Sammy's thread, regarding faith. Kay?

Be back in a minute...

Peace,

tammy

Apognophos

Interestingly, the one account where Jesus is mentioned as writing on the ground is thought by some to be a later insertion:

Although in line with many stories in the Gospels and probably primitive (Didascalia Apostolorum refers to it, possibly Papias also), certain critics argue that it was "certainly not part of the original text of St John's Gospel."

The passage has been taken as confirmation of Jesus' ability to write (as opposed to read—in early societies many more people could read than write), otherwise only suggested by implication in the Gospels, but the word "εγραφεν" in 8:8 could mean "draw" as well as "write".

-- Wikipedia: Adultery pericope

More on topic, Adamah is right: Zeitgeist masquerades as something deep, but it's a load of bollocks. I'd recommend not watching it at all, because the few bits that may be factual are drowned in a lot of confusing statements and it would take a lot of dredging to separate one from the other. Better to just buy some good books instead. Anything religious made for TV or film seems to be too sensationalized.

Sammy Jenkis

Yeah the whole claim about 12/25 did make me do a double take but I had to keep watching, it was really interesting. I could at least watch it without criticizing- be it true or not. My past self would never have made it past the first few minutes, thanks everyone for the comments. Food for thought I guess..

mP

Adamah

Zeitgeist SHOULD serve as a warning to all persons who THINK of themselves as rational and logical that the messages we MOST should scrutinize are the ones we most WANT to be true. Your wants and wishes have NOTHING to do with whether something is TRUE or not, eg I want to win the lottery, but random chance doesn't care what we WANT.

mP:
The jewish religion is nothing but astrotheology like all other religions. Josephus tells us that the twelve tribes are the same as the Greek Zodiac. He also tells us there was a zodiac in the temple in Jerusalem. This same temple is built to point to the east like all other sun worshipping temples, and is filled with creatures that are copies of other pagan creatures. I could go on if you really want.

Why dont you believe Josephus ?

mP

Sammy:
So why did the xians take a pagan festival so easily ? Shouldnt they have rebelled against it ? Why are all the jewish festivals basically at the same key moements in the calendar like hte pagans ?

Zeitgeist, anyone seen it?

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