Okage Takes Issue with: November 1st 2013 Watchtower Magazine

by okage 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Tech49:

    3. The SIMPLIFIED STUDY copy of the STUDY copy, same but re-worded and with more pictures, for all you who can't understand the really big words in the regular one.

    The Simplified version has the same pictures as the standard Study edition. It has simpler wording, but as a result, it has a higher number of words; it also includes sections for 'explaining some expressions', as well as additional 'pull quotes' (excerpts of the article in large text) on some pages. The extra content takes an additional 5 pages. As a result, the Simplified edition only contains the study articles and not the extra non-study articles (such as the 'give us money' article in the November 2013 issue) that are present in the standard Study edition.

  • rmt1
    rmt1

    So... ... ... The Simplified version is for the inevitable and necessary transition from a central distribution of English speaking fleece to a broader distribution of non-English speaking fleece. Plus lower levels of classical/historical/scientific literacy, or Pre-Internet adult literacy, in general, among English speaking fleece, partially a result of the phenomenon of decreasing proportion of print versus online readership. (Although I heard that print continues to grow in total, keeping pace with population growth, but online sources grow much faster.)

    ??

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley
    Wouldn't a deity who is infinitely powerful and wrathful become angered with a century of Bible Students calling him the wrong name?

    I agree with your observation, okage, and would take this one step further:

    Isn't the onus on god to make sure his own name is preserved? WT has acknowledged in the past that the true pronunciation of god's name has been lost forever. Scholars concur.

    So, if god is unwilling and/or unable to preserve his own name, why should humans lose sleep over it? Obviously it's not very high up on god's list of priorities.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    It's the thought that counts, ADCMS ;-) At least, that's what I was taught about using God's name. After all, people in some other countries can't pronounce "Jehovah" anyway. Although, now that I think of it, anyone should be able to pronounce "Yahweh"... hmm....

    So... ... ... The Simplified version is for the inevitable and necessary transition from a central distribution of English speaking fleece to a broader distribution of non-English speaking fleece.

    Yeah, I think that's about the size of it.

  • okage
    okage

    @AndDon'tCallMeShirley: It's disturbing that they would acknowledge that the true name would be lost forever when they also make the claim that the name "Jehovah" used to be in the original manuscripts and accuse clergymen of the 3rd century Catholic Church of intentionally destroying those manuscripts.

    If there is no record of these men destroying manuscripts with the name Jehovah in them, how can they make the accusation? If Jehovah isn't God's name, how could there be manuscripts with the name in them? If the name is lost forever, why pick a name?

    Would a God who was willing to supposedly flood the world be more understanding if you started calling him other names or if you just admitted you forgot his name and asked for it again. You're right that it is the God's responsibility to restore his name. If he was really with the Watchtower Society, he would have told them his name so they wouldn't go around spreading false information about who he is.

    You can't have a relationship with God if you call him Carl.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    rmt1, there is also 4. the Awake! From their website "Awake! shows how to cope with today’s problems and builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world."

    When Paul talked to the Athenians, he pointed out that they had been worshipping him all along in ignorance, with their reverence to an "unknown God". http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+17%3A16-34&version=NIV

    So anyone who has not heard Paul's message or a variant, are worshipping God.

  • rmt1
    rmt1

    "accuse clergymen of the 3rd century Catholic Church of intentionally destroying those manuscripts."

    I don't recall this claim from my time in the 1990s. Is there a reference?

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Look up Jehovah in Insight Vol 2

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Insight vol. 2 p. 5, Jehovah

    "Jehovah" is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, although "Yahweh" is favored by most Hebrew scholars

    ....But as far back as the 14th century the Tetragrammaton had already begun to be used in translations of the Christian Scriptures into Hebrew, beginning with the translation of Matthew into Hebrew that was incorporated in the work ' E ′ ven bo ′ chan by Shem-Tob ben Isaac Ibn Shaprut

    When did this change in the Greek translations of the Hebrew Scriptures take place?

    It evidently took place in the centuries following the death of Jesus and his apostles. In Aquila’s Greek version, dating from the second century C.E., the Tetragrammaton still appeared in Hebrew characters. Around 245 C.E.

    ...The so-called Christians, then, who "replaced the Tetragrammaton by kyrios" in the Septuagint copies, were not the early disciples of Jesus. They were persons of later centuries, when the foretold apostasy was well developed and had corrupted the purity of Christian teachings.

    ....Known by the first human pair.

    The name Jehovah was not first revealed to Moses, for it was certainly known by the first man

    ..." It is reasonable to believe that Jehovah God informed Adam of this account of creation. The Genesis record does not mention his doing so

    ^^^

    Interestingly, Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, first rendered the divine name as "Jehova." This form appeared in his book Pugeo Fidei, published in 1270 C.E. — over 700 years ago. (W 2/1/1980, p.12, "The Divine Name In Later Times")

    ----

    "Evidently" Adam and Eve spoke English, "evidently" they had a time machine which took them to the 14th century c.e. to learn the name "Jehovah", "evidently" from a Catholic monk.

    "it is reasonable to believe" this happened.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    I don't find anything wrong with the Society's statements as quoted there. It's a historical fact that "YHWH" was removed from the Hebrew Scriptures. It's acknowledged by the WT that a Dominican, i.e., Catholic monk first rendered the name as "Jehova". Considering that JWs in other countries say the name differently anyway (Ehoba, Ieova, etc.), I'm not sure how this is a scandal or revelation when the Society states in the Insight book that one particular arbitrary pronunication was picked for English just as was done for all other languages. Perhaps it's shocking to some people who weren't paying attention at the meetings, but...

    Obviously the Society was not claiming that Adam and Eve would have pronounced the name "Jehovah". That's not stated there at all. The WT does speculate that God taught Adam his name (Eve says the name after giving birth) and the story of creation. This would be a totally reasonable assumption if this whole Adam and Eve business had actually happened.

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