by BU2B 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Must have been early to mid 80's a group of about 25 of us dubs went to the theatre and before the show started they always used to play 'God Save the Queen'. Everyone stood up for it apart from the 25 dubs. I was the only one to stand amongst them all. I was probably only about 13 or 14 but I just thought they looked ridiculous and disrespectful.
I think they make it up as they go along. And the more they stand out from the crowd the better they feel.
I am so sorry that I told my (spiritually weak) hubby that he wasn't supposed to stand for the anthem. The poor man had to run to the bathroom at the opening of his favorite game.
Anything to make them stand apart.
Stupid.
I was just telling my husband about this last night! When I went to school, it was a BiG deal if we JW kids stood up for the anthem. We were told to keep seated if we were told to "rise for the national anthem" and stand only if we were told to "rise and sing." Well, we aware always just told to rise for the anthem.
Fun Fact: I moved in Grade 7, at my new school we had to stand every morning for the national anthem! I felt like the biggest LOSER for sitting. Eventually I did awkwardly stand. If I stood at school assemblies, I would get death looks from fellow JWs who were sitting. If I sat like the other JWs during the anthem, teachers would glare and point at me.
This is a sore subject for me, maybe I need therapy. ;)
I say, stop making ridiculous Phairasaic rules Watchtower!!!
sj = School and Jehovah's Witnesses (no longer in use)
The quoted part is almost word for word in 9/15/2002 Watchtower article "Salvation Belongs to Jehovah".
The Jehovah's Witnesses cannot salute the flag because so doing would denote their allegiance to the nation it represents. But one can show respect for a nation that preserves his or her rights to worship as they choose and not subject themselves to military and other forms of service. There's a difference between worship and common respect. It's one reason that JWs are not more...ummm...popular...than they are. If they were to walk into a room with a priest, would they refuse to shake hands?
No one's asking JWs to grovel on the ground in worship of flag or country. There are no deranged emperors (just a deranged president), no state religions. In short, standing would not be inappropriate. I'm sure that if all the early Christians had to do was stand when a Roman dignitary dropped by, that most likely would have complied.
used to cringe when we remained seated, I just didn't see the point of seeming so disrespectful.
(Romans
13:5-7)5 There is therefore compelling reason for YOU people to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of [YOUR] conscience. 6 For that is why YOU are also paying taxes; for they are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose. 7 Render to all their dues, to him who [calls for] the tax, the tax; to him who [calls for] the tribute, the tribute; to him who [calls for] fear, such fear;to him who [calls for] honor, such honor
Worship:
profound admiration.... adoration paid,
Someone says, "You are the one and only God. Who is the Almighty creator of Heaven and Earth. There is no God before you."
Honoring:
people are not going to bow down to him honoring him" something or someone just means that you respect them and you respect there wishes.
Someone says, "We gather here today to honor the achievement of "Mr. Bob"! This whole gathering or something is for "Bob. Or to honor your father & mother ... Someone says, "We gather here today to honor the achievement of "Mr. Bob"! This whole gathering or something is for "Bob
Admiring:
Admiring" someone or something means you respect what they have or have not done or you like the way they do things or even the way they look. You may truly admire an earthly father or mother from your heart
Someone says, "We gather here today to honor the achievement of "Mr. Bob"! This whole gathering or something is for "Bob
Respect: "to look back at something / to regard something"... in a positive sense
Use "respect" to mean you think a person or their actions is a good example that others should follow.
Adore to regard with the utmost esteem, love , and respect; honor .. to pay divine honor to;worship: toadore God.
Horizontal honor = mutual respect as equals
vertical honor = praise, esteem, admiration.giving praise and esteem to those “who are superior, whether by virtue of their abilities, their rank, their services to the community, their sex, their kinship, their office, or anything else.”
worship/Love God (vertical honor .. if you feel profound awe & admiration )....
honor/respect the King .... ( because of rank and service He provides )
honor/respect fellowman ( “right to respect among equals and respect for achievements"
love your mate (because you adore ..to love dearly as well as respect & honor them )
What then is the opposite of love and respect for God (adoration ) and fellowman ? Contempt and disrespect
*** w02 9/15 pp. 23-24 “Salvation Belongs to Jehovah” ***
Today, flags are usually saluted with outstretched arm or with the hand held to the forehead or over the heart. At times, some special bodily position may be assumed. In some lands, children at school are expected to kneel and kiss the flag. By standing quietly while others salute the flag, true Christians make it evident that they are respectful observers.
What if a flag ceremony is conducted in such a way that simply standing gives evidence of participation? For example, suppose one student in a school is selected to represent the whole school and he salutes the flag outside at a flag pole while the other students are expected to stand at attention inside the classroom. The mere act of standing in this instance signifies agreement with having the student on the outside act as a personal representative in saluting the flag. Standing in any manner would then denote joining in the ceremony. If this is the case, those desiring to be only respectful observers would remain quietly seated. What if the class is already standing as such a ceremony starts? In this case, participation would not be indicated if we were to remain standing.
Suppose one is not asked to salute the flag but merely to hold it, either in a parade or in a classroom or elsewhere, so that others can salute. Rather than ‘fleeing from idolatry,’ as commanded in the Scriptures, this would actually mean being at the very center of the ceremony. The same is true of marching in patriotic parades. Because doing this would mean giving support to what is honored by the parade, true Christians conscientiously decline.
When national anthems are played, usually all a person has to do to show that he shares the sentiments of the song is to stand up. In such cases, Christians remain seated. If they are already standing when the national anthem is played, however, there is no need for them to take the special action of sitting down. It is not as though they had specifically chosen to stand for the anthem. On the other hand, if a group are expected to stand and sing, then merely standing up out of respect but not singing would not constitute sharing in the sentiments of the song.
never fully got the rule when I was in I doubt most active witnesses have problems figuring out the protocol.
Ahhhh, yes, the "national anthem" issue. Before I ask a question, I'll preface with these comments. Personally, I faded out of the borg in the late 1980s. And, I personally no longer believe that there is ANY kind of "deity" that is deeply, profoundly offended at humans standing for a "national anthem" or reciiting a "pledge of allegiance." So, peronally, whenever I go to a professional sports event, or a sports event at a school, I do usually stand when the natioinal anthem is being played. However, I do NOT recite the pledge, anywhere, at ANY event. I profoundly and conscientiously disagree with EVERY statement that is expressed in the "Pledge of Allegiance." (Especially the part about the United States being "one nation under God." ) Now, having stated that, I have a question: What, exactly, does the playing of a national anthem DO? What does it ACCOMPLISH? Does it make the players any better at their chosen game? Does it make the "fans"---the spectators---better people? Does if make the game transpire better, and more smoothly? What does it do? The older and older that I get with each passing year, I have started to see how silly and assinine that the playing of a so-called "national anthem"---at any sports event---in ANY country really is. Personally, the playing of a "national anthem" doesn't do ANYTHING for me. Nothing. Would anyone like to clarify this matter? Thanks...
Titch
a simple rule was to be one notch below the norm, stand but dont sing, do not put your hand on your chest.
even opposed nations' leaders stand for each other anthems.
Was not M. Henschel, WT big wig, beaten in Africa for not respecting the flag, anthem?
taking the medicin forced upon the R&F?
