Blondie"s comments you will not hear at the )(_!%_@)!# WT Study (WITH YOU)

by blondie 32 Replies latest jw friends

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  Doubting Bro

  I liked how they reinforced their new rapture doctrine. At the meeting yesterday, I looked up the rapture on my phone to make sure what I understood was in fact what other churches teach. Apparently there are all types of rapture teachings but can be categorized in 3 ways. Pre-tribulation, Mid-tribulation and Post Tribulation. Of course, the mid-tribulation is the least favorite theory and therefore the one the WTS has adopted.

  I couldn't find a list of all the other denominations that also believe in the mid-tribulation rapture but I'm going to keep looking. I'm not sure what to make of this change. Are they trying to bring themselves more in line with the hard core evangelicals? I mean, they're already pretty hard core on most issues, just some doctrinal stuff is a bit different.

  I'm not certain what they are up to, likely just changing things for the sake of change. I just find it a little strange. Maybe they can declare the Great Tribulation has already started? I'm breaking my own rule about attempting to apply logic when dealing with WTS doctrine!!!
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  88JM

  Just another observation (not that I really care much) - did anyone catch at the end of paragraph 17 that they put the "marriage of the lamb" to be "shortly after the battle of Armageddon".

  As far as I know, the "marriage of the lamb" has always been before Armageddon (see the Revelation book?), and this wasn't highlighted as being "new light". Would there not need to be some scriptural gymnastics to put the marriage after Armageddon? Has this been explained before? Surely not a mistake... haha!
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  pixel

  Good point 88. I will have to research that.
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  Apognophos

  The change to the inspection from being in 1918 to now 1914-19 was completely unexplained. There was no scriptural backup for this and very little in the way of even anecdotal "evidence" - just simply a bit about the rebelling against Rutherford. The interesting thing about that of course is that it is portrayed as a "cleansing" yet the whole thing was ultimately about a legal struggle around corporate matters - nothing scriptural, doctrinal or pastorial at all.

  Actually, the reason the Society "knows" the cleansing took place over a period of time is that Jesus cleansed the temple twice, once at the start of his ministry and once at the end. Look back at paragraph 5:

  He cleansed the temple in Jerusalem twice—first at the start of his ministry and second toward the end. (Matt. 21:12, 13; John 2:14-17) Hence, Jesus’ cleansing work involved a period of time.

  What's funny is that John contains the "start of ministry" account and Matthew contains the "end of ministry" account. No one gospel has both accounts in it, so the only logical conclusion is that it's the same account, and the gospels either aren't inspired, or one of them is not in chronological order -- but not that the same thing happened twice, which is the Society's explanation. Based on this, they say that the cleansing took place over a period of time -- because it had a start date and an end date. Never mind the fact that, even if Jesus cleansed the temple twice, it was not a continuous action over time, but two actions years apart and nothing in-between.
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  Frazzled UBM

  Pardon my ignorance but woudl this have been the study in all KHs yesterday all over the world - so I can ask my wife if she understood it and what she understood and how was it different from her previous understanding and see what she says?
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  Apognophos

  I believe so, yes. The week that just ended with Sunday was the week for which this study was scheduled, so it had to be considered by Sunday.
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  Separation of Powers

  Thanks Blondie, as always, great job!

  This article has to be one of the single worst explanations I have ever read! There are SOOOO many holes that I feel like I've been walking on a big wheel of swiss cheese.

  The 1914 to 1919 thing...where does that come from? At least, with the old understanding, one could fathom that the 3 1/2 years from the beginning of Jesus' ministry to the end may correspond to late 1914 to early 1918. But 4 1/2 years? where does that come from? Is it drawn from some mystical exponential and logarithmic equation only know by the current GB, oh excuse me, the FDS. Or maybe it is the atomic weight of some unknown element missing from the Periodic Table that will be announced at the upcoming Annual Meeting.

  Then there is the rapture thing....absolutely no one in the audience dared to touch that. The conductor's own understanding of Scripture and even the Society's doctrine is so shallow that he just went through the motions. Maybe 8-10 people actually commented and they simply parroted what was in the article. Rapture? What rapture?

  I think the most disturbing thing about all of it was the constant regurgitated, "We used to believe." comment. Really? "used" to believe?

  If faith is the assured expectation (belief) of things hoped for and those "things" can be so readily changed by people in power, then what is your faith based on....THAT expectation CAN NOT BE ASSURED!

  Utter nonsense!

  Can't wait to see what happens next....it's like a train wreck.
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  Apognophos

  The 1914 to 1919 thing...where does that come from? At least, with the old understanding, one could fathom that the 3 1/2 years from the beginning of Jesus' ministry to the end may correspond to late 1914 to early 1918. But 4 1/2 years? where does that come from?

  Actually, this is an interesting point to me, because I think it represents a general abandonment of Biblical numeralogy. In the old days, yes, the Society would have had some obscure Bible verse ready to explain the length of the time period. Now they are basing their scripture applications solely on events -- 1914 we know about (and yes, this is based on calculations of the most obscure sort, but this is a bit different as it's The Event to end all events in JW chronology, and all they are doing here is sticking with an existing teaching... for now), and 1919 which was the year Rutherford et al. were released and "the Bible Students began to stress the importance of sharing personally in the Kingdom preaching".

  I think this marks the difference between the old school, Russell/Franz style of "algorithmic Bible reading" and the new school of the GB who are less "hardcore" about applying Bible numbers to modern-day events. They may even view the old practice with some embarrassment.
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  blondie

  *** Insight Book Volume 2 p. 787 Resurrection***

  Evidently, though, "the marriage of the Lamb" does not take place until after judgment has been executed upon "Babylon the Great." (Re 18) After describing the destruction of this "great harlot," Revelation 19:7 says: "Let us rejoice and be overjoyed, and let us give him the glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself." When all the 144,000 have been finally approved and "sealed" as faithful ones and have been resurrected to the heavens, the marriage can proceed.

  w92 4/15 p. 17 par. 22 Jehovah’s Provision, the "Given Ones" ***Finally, after the demise of Babylon the Great, all 144,000 ‘sealed ones’ will be in heaven for the marriage of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:1-3; 19:1-8)

  (sealed does not mean in heaven though per the WTS)

  *** w90 8/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***In the book of Revelation, immediately after John tells of God’s executing the religious harlot, Babylon the Great, he describes "the marriage of the Lamb." A filthy, immoral "woman" is removed from the scene, and we see "the bride, the Lamb’s wife" ‘arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, which stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones.’ (Revelation 18:10; 19:2, 7, 8; 21:9) The destruction of Babylon the Great is part of the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:21; Revelation 7:14) So it could be reasoned that some of the bride class will survive the great tribulation as evidence of Jehovah’s approval and protection. (Zephaniah 2:3; compare Matthew 24:22.) If they are thus preserved on earth, they could remain here until God chooses to take them to heaven.

  *** re chap. 38 p. 277 pars. 16-17 Praise Jah for His Judgments! ***This will be when the Lamb’s wife will have fully prepared herself—the great majority of the 144,000 having already received their heavenly reward and those still on earth having been finally approved and sealed as faithful ones.

  At this point in Jehovah’s timetable, when the sealing of the 144,000 has reached completion, the angels release the four winds of the great tribulation. (Revelation 7:1-3) First, judgment is executed on harlotlike Babylon the Great. The victorious Christ next moves on quickly to Armageddon to destroy the rest of Satan’s organization on earth and, finally, to abyss Satan and his demons. (Revelation 19:11–20:3) If any anointed ones still survive on earth, they will doubtless enter into their heavenly reward soon after Christ completes his conquest and will join their fellow members of the bride class. Then, at God’s due time, the marriage of the Lamb can take place

  *** w98 10/15 p. 22 par. 16 A Jerusalem True to Its Name ***Today, Jehovah’s people long for the time when God will triumph over all his enemies. This will start with the destruction of "Babylon the Great"—a figurative city that embraces all forms of false religion. (Revelation 18:2, 8) The destruction of false religion will mark the first phase of the coming great tribulation. (Matthew 24:21, 22) Ahead of us too is a truly momentous event—the heavenly marriage of the Lord Jesus Christ to his bride of 144,000 citizens of "New Jerusalem." (Revelation 19:7; 21:2) We cannot say exactly when that climactic union will be completed, but it certainly will be a joyous event.—See TheWatchtower, August 15, 1990, pages 30-1.

  *** w91 5/1 p. 23 Thrilling Visions That Strengthen Faith ***Surely, John is thrilled to witness the end of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, and to observe the joyous events that follow her destruction. (17:1–19:10) Drunk with the blood of holy ones, she is seen astride a scarlet-colored wild beast with seven heads and ten horns (the League of Nations and its successor, the United Nations). Ah, but what devastation she suffers as the horns turn against her!

  Heavenly voices are heard praising Jah for the destruction of Babylon the Great. And what thunderous praise heralds the marriage of the Lamb and his bride, the resurrected anointed ones!

  *** w89 9/1 p. 21 par. 14 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***Very shortly, Babylon the Great will be removed from the earthly scene. Then, as Revelation 19:1-8 indicates, the Lamb’s marriage with his bride of the entire 144,000 will be consummated in the heavens,

  *** w95 7/1 pp. 13-14 par. 19 Christian Witnesses With Heavenly Citizenship ***In another vision John hears faithful, resurrected, anointed Christians referred to as ‘the Lamb’s wife.’ What a warm picture this paints of the intimacy they will enjoy with Jesus and of their willing subjection to him! Picture the joy in heaven when the last of them finally receives his heavenly reward. Now, at last, "the marriage of the Lamb" can take place! That royal heavenly organization will then be complete.—Revelation 19:6-8.

  *** w92 4/15 p. 17 par. 22 Jehovah’s Provision, the "Given Ones" ***Finally, after the demise of Babylon the Great, all 144,000 ‘sealed ones’ will be in heaven for the marriage of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:1-3; 19:1-8)
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  88JM

  Thanks Blondie for the quotes there. But surely that confirms what I was saying that in the past they have always consistently put the "marriage of the lamb" before Armageddon? It does come "soon after" the destruction of "Babylon the Great" which marks the start of the "Great Tribulation" but as far as I had read, Armageddon being the culmination/conclusion/climax of the "Great Tribulation", the "marriage of the lamb" happens somewhere in the middle there, but "soon after" Babylon the Great is destroyed, at least.

  Contrary to what the 1998 Watchtower (and 1990 Watchtower it references) where they could "not say exactly" when the marriage would happen, with the new light in the Watchtower this week they are now nailing it down to be after Armageddon. So with Armageddon being the culmination/climax of the Great Tribulation, the "marriage of the lamb" coming even after the Great Tribulation in a way? Is it "new light" or are they just trying to see what they can slip past people?