Dinah's "friends"...

by Viva la Vida 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Should we take a contemporary viewpoint or opinion and try to make it universal?

    How did ancient societies view rape?

    Famous rape stories include the rape of the Sabine women by the males followers of Romulus (the mythical founder of Rome) ...

    he Rape is supposed to have occurred in the early history of Rome, shortly after its founding by Romulus and his mostly male followers. Seeking wives in order to found families, the Romans negotiated unsuccessfully with theSabines, who populated the area. Fearing the emergence of a rival society, the Sabines refused to allow their women to marry the Romans. Consequently, the Romans planned to abduct Sabine women, during a festival ofNeptune Equester and proclaimed the festival among Rome's neighbours. According to Livy, many people from Rome's neighbours including folk from the Caeninenses, Crustumini, and Antemnates, and many of the Sabines attended. At the festival Romulus gave a signal, at which the Romans grabbed the Sabine women and fought off the Sabine men. The indignant abductees were soon implored by Romulus to accept Roman husbands.

    Livy is clear that no sexual assault took place. On the contrary, Romulus offered them free choice and promised civic and property rights to women. According to Livy, Romulus spoke to them each in person, "and pointed out to them that it was all owing to the pride of their parents in denying the right of intermarriage to their neighbours. They would live in honourable wedlock, and share all their property and civil rights, and—dearest of all to human nature—would be the mothers of free men." [2]

    War with the Sabines and other tribes

    Outraged at the occurrence, the king of the Caeninenses entered upon Roman territory with his army. Romulus and the Romans met the Caeninenses in battle, killed their king, and routed their army. Romulus later attacked Caenina and took it upon the first assault. Returning to Rome, Romulus dedicated a temple to Jupiter Feretrius (according to Livy, the first temple dedicated in Rome) and offered the spoils of the enemy king as spolia opima. According to theFasti Triumphales, Romulus celebrated a triumph over the Caeninenses on 1 March 752 BC. [3]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

    And then in the OT, there is the attempted rape of a levite (therefore, male) by Israelites from the tribe of Benjamin. The storyteller takes a while to get to the point of his story (starts in Judges 19:1), but by verse 22 he has the house where the levite is an overnight guest surrounded by the men of the city. Let the NIV continue ...

    While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”

    The Levite seems to have a headache that day and his host offers his virgin daughter and his guest concubine (maybe wife) to them (heard this one before, havn't you?). so the levite takes his concubine/wife outside for the sexually ravenous men to screw, which they do all night long (GOOD STORY, HUH?).

    You can read the rest for yourself, but particularly note the reaction of the rape victim's husband/owner.

    As a result of this rape, there's a war by Israel against the Benjaminites, which results in Yahweh insisting that the Benjaminites by massacred and their cities burnt down. Most of the Benjaminites are dead (600 survivors) and apparently no women are left. So the other tribes then wonder about the survival of the 12 tribes (gotta have 12 tribes still around for the Revelation, haha) and the other tribes will not let THEIR women marry any surviving Benjaminite. So they decided then to kill all the men, women and children in the region of Jabesh-gilead, except virgins (did that need a digital examination?) and to give the proven virgins to the surviving Benjaminites, thuis ensuring there still will be 12 tribes for the Revelation author to discourse about.

    You'll find an interesting discussion about this rape in http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/concubine-of-levite-bible

    in the case of both the Sabine women and the Jabesh-gilead women, their experience was surely rape, but apparently not REAL rape (me being facetious again)

    Be sure to note Yahweh's part in all this story of sex and mayhem.

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    Looking up Dinah on Wikipedia, I read quotes from writings by Rabbinic Scholars.

    Their thoughts and extra information, have opened my eyes to a different way of looking at this story.

    There are several interesting points. Quite intriguing points.

    I've written and deleted my summary of the Wikipedia page.

    I will simply direct you to the whole page as they do a good job of discussing it all here. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinah)

    They make several good points, and I realized that the story is far from a simplistic "after school special" type of story that I was raised on by JWs.

    It actually upsets me, that JW teachings, have "used" Dinah, and her story, and misrepresented her for their purposes, of, see what happens with Bad Association...

    Dinah, I am proud of you for trying to live a life. For falling in love with a strong and generous family. I am sorry that your family was so blood thirsty. I am sorry I thought you were a bad person all my life.

    LoisLane

  • rmt1
    rmt1

    There's some law that if someone slept with a girl he could pay her father a shekel and that's that. Fiddler on the Roof. So there's a disconnect in this story. Either they are groovy and pound-wise and there's a mechanism to smooth over this event, so that neither father figure loses face. Or, they are not groovy, they are genetically arrogant, and they accuse the other side of rendering their sister a 'harlot' as if the face-saving shekel option did not exist.

  • Scully
    Scully

    There is a book/novel called The Red Tent by Anita Diamant that takes an entirely different perspective of the story of Dinah. In fact, she tells the story from Dinah's perspective - where her relationship with Shechem was actually a love match, and her family was so outraged that she wanted to marry outside her own tribe that they conspired to commit genocide against Shechem's family.

    It was actually a really interesting read, and gave me something to think about - after all the Bible is a book written by men, for men, where women were second class citizens - it made me realize that surely the women had a point of view, and likely one that differed greatly from the men's perspective.

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    Hi Scully, Yes, the book, "The Red Tent" is mentioned in my Wikipedia post above. I would be interested in reading it.

    Different Rabbinic papers tell a completely different story, than Jehovah's Witnesses with the add on of, "See what happens when you engage in bad association"?

    This story is about jealously, cruelty, and murder committed by early Israelite psychopaths.

    The BAD ASSOCIATION were the ISRAELITES. Jacob's 2 sons.

    Am I the only one that see's it, this way?

    LoisLane

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    The point of this story is clear - DO NOT MIX WITH WORLDLY PEOPLE - BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DO. Making children scared to mix with other children or in fact all non-Witnesses. This is the only place this phobia is introduced in the Bible Stories book but it comes back in a big way in the Teacher book.

  • Scully
    Scully

    The other point of the story is "Jehovah (or people who believe they represent him) will F*CK YOU UP if you piss them off."

    They will make up lies about you. They will terrorize you. They will cut you. They will kill you - figuratively speaking - and get everyone you love to regard you as dead to them. Then they will say it was your choice, and you knew the consequences.

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    Scully - you are right but that (Jehovah will f*ck you up if you disboey him -- actually his organization) is the point of EVERY STORY in the Bible Stories book. Cheers Frazzled

  • rmt1
    rmt1

    Is there a free web version of My Book of Bible Stories? I mentioned it, out of a recollection of 20+ years ago, with something approching toleration, and this site gave me nine yards of anti-aircraft fire. Which tells me, ah, perhaps I would have to go back, as an adult, and re-read this thing to know where all this allergic reaction comes from. I do not recall the nuanced arguments of the text.

  • VM44
    VM44

    "Dinah made friends with people who did not obey God's laws"

    Her own brothers did not obey God's laws when they committed mass murder, and they were not repentant or sorry that they did so!

    Does the My Stories book mention that?

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