If your friend is a researcher in the field of Sociology, he should already be reading widely on his chosen topic, including the book you mention. It would be unusual if he has not heard of Hassan's work. I find it interesting that you have to ask us how to provide your "sociologist friend" with help. Is he a graduate or postgraduate? affiliated with any research funding or professional support? What academic qualifications does he possess that you refer to him as a sociologist?
help with sociologist friend...
by losingit 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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losingit
My friend is a professor at a small state university on the east coast,has a PhD but I'm not sure from where. I do know where he went to undergrad.
I know it sounds odd that I want to help this friend, but when I say help, i mean to direct him towards Hassan' s work. Maybe he has read it. I don't know. Maybe he thought it would be boring for me to hear about it. But when I'm referencing his work but not mentioning his name in the conversation I would think my sociologist frirnd's ears would be on fire! So it made me think that perhaps he is not aware of Hassan' s work. I just don't know if it's presumptuous of me to say -- hey, check this out, when I am not a sociology scholar.
Byt I doappreciate that there is a difference between the psychological versus the sociological perspectives on.cults. that had not occurred to me. Thank you. e
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Fernando
It may be a challenge to see where the sociologist is coming from, but potentially still worth the effort.
As an exJW once said to me: "there is arsenic in the honey".
I imagine it is quite likely that a sociologist (who talks about all religions being cults) would know of Steven Hassan, and if not would appreciate knowing of/about him and his books/website. Maybe a gift from Bookdepository.co.uk (what about the chapter on "Dual Identities" in "Releasing the bonds")?
The cultic or abusive elements of power, control, authoritarianism, peer-pressure, group think, interposing hierarchy and surreptitious clergy class between God and man (as pseudo-mediators) are present in every religion, albeit to varying degrees.
Captives are blinded to the aberrance of their particular group, which has some sort of monopoly on truth which is generally understood to be doctrinal (and not related to Jesus/Messiah/Isa and the gospel of grace).
Some like the WBTS will claim they have no clergy class, and yet there will be a small group of humans prescribing to the sheeple what to think, say and do, on pain of some form of punishment or loss.
It doesn't matter how you chop and dice it religion is always deleterious of the gospel/bissar/injeel/injil - by design and not by accident.
Just ask any Christian/Jew/Muslim to explain what the gospel/bissar/injeel/injil is in one word.
What would you think of a car salesman that had no idea a Ford is a motorcar?
It is religion that prevents people from being what they claim to be - Christian/Jew/Muslim.
It is religion that instead turns people into Churchianists/Zionists/Islamists.
It is religion that deceives its followers into believing that the term faithS is scriptural. The term does not appear in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim scriptures - not even once.
Religion steals our faith and spirituality and substitutes it with religion falsely labelled as faith & spirituality. That is why whilst under the influence of religion we confuse faith with religious belief.
Since when is religion a fruit of the Holy Spirit?
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laverite
Steve2 wrote: " If your friend is a researcher in the field of Sociology, he should already be reading widely on his chosen topic, including the book you mention. It would be unusual if he has not heard of Hassan's work."
I do not agree that a sociologist studying cults would have to be familiar with Hassan. Hassan is a mental health provider and writer of self help books. This is in no way negating the important work he has done. His work would not necessarily be on the radar of an research sociologist studying cults. He hasn't published any academic pieces that I am aware of.
I am an academic, researcher and writer working at the intersections of psychology and sociology with degrees in both fields. I do not pay any attention to pop psych and self help books in areas that relate to what I study. That said, I may come across them accidentally and might poke around out of curiosity. But they wouldn't be books I'd be reading, nor would I cite them unless I were somehow studying self help movements.
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laverite
Losingit,
The ways in which sociologists have defined cults have shifted somewhat over time. Sociologists began studying cults in the 1930s. Typically the sociolgical definition of cult has differed from the popular or "pop" definition of cult that you would see in Hassan's book.
You wrote: "I could not believe that someone who has this type of educational background conducting this type of research does not grasp the true meaning of "cults." I think he thought that i was speaking from a position of ignorance or lack of experience, but that's not so."
There is no such thing as one "true meaning" of cults. It's a social construct, and the definitions that are agreed upon by different groups differ across those groups. What defines cult from the sociological perspective isn't necessarily what you think a cult is.
A potential productive conversation would be for you to ask your friend to tell you about the history of sociological study into cults, how sociologists define the term cult, how this differs from "pop" definitions of cult, etc. You could then share what you've read, how you define it, etc. It would be an interesting conversation.
To say that you can't believe that someone with his education doesn't understand the term (as you do), tells me very little about what he knows, but demonstrates what you don't know (e.g. lack of historical and disciplinary knowledge in the sociology of cults, academic research, etc.). That's entirely forgivable but the way you wrote it comes across as condescending.
There are some interesting and fun conversations the two of you could have.
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laverite
P.S. Sociologists do not define all religions as cults. He was probably speaking off the cuff, expressing his own personal disdain for religion.
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losingit
I was baffled by the conversation. That was the sentiment behind saying that I couldn't believe that he doesn't understand the term. i thought that we would see many thngs eye to eye but we didn't. It was a very interesting conversation, and I hope to have more conversations with him. I will mention Hassan and see where it goes from there. Thank you for the suggestions as to how to guide the conversation. There's lots to learn, and i definitely have an open mind.
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steve2
laverite, I see your point, yet even if researchers are approaching their topic from a sociological framework, if their topic is also covered in other disciplines they generally recognize the existence of such work. For example, my PhD was in psychology and was on primary health care utilization by a specified group of consumers. Although I did not delve deeply into sociological perspectives on healthczre utilization, I developed a broad knowledge of their existence. Yes, there are "pop" psychology books on religious cults and lots of religious books on cults (with the irony of one cult accusing another group of being a cult) - researchers do not need to know of these sorts of publications if it is not directly relevant to their work. Yet Hassan by contrast is "more" than a "pop" writer in the field of cults - and I would expect researchers in other fields to at least know of his existence, if not his work.
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laverite
Steve2 -
I disagree. Hassan is a mental health clinician and his books are self help books, not academic. I wouldn't expect researchers on cults to necessarily know of him or his work, unless they are looking at mental health resources for exiting cults. There really would be very little need for sociologists specializing in cults to know of him.
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Giordano
As I scrolled down to respond to this subject I was humbled by the following ad. I am looking at it as I write this......... "Rectal Bleeding and Pain? Investigating Anal Fissure Pain Relief. See if you Qualify. " That is the ultimate defination of a religion/cult.
That you have to qualify. Every religion has that in common. Even Jim Jones wanted you to qualify to be one of his followers so you could dig in the dirt at Jonestown. The WT wants you to earn your way to becoming a bethel slave. Really that's all you need to know about religion vs cult.....it's all the same.
I have a PHD in being a pain in the ass............ so I should know.
Does this add to the conversation......... probably not....then again it's four in the morning here and I am pissed off being awake and far to sober.