help with sociologist friend... (page 4)

steve2

Here's an old maxim from way back which shows the holier-than-thou put-down value of labeling as a cult another person's religion:

"He belongs to a cult, I belong to Christ".

fulltimestudent

You can say all religions are cults,

Its not quite true, LisaRose.

First, it depends which definition of a cult you wish to use. If you use the first defn. provided by dictionary.com, which was:

1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

Then all religions are certainly cults. If you wish to define the term in the way that its used on this site, then you can find some distinctions between high control and low control groups.

However, Christianity (in general) has a sad record of attempting to control the minds and hearts of its adherents. For convenience, I'd like to use the lists provided by Wikipedia of famous ex-communications through the centuries:

Web-reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_excommunicated_by_the_Roman_Catholic_Church

1st century

Simon Magus, for whom simony was named
Hymenaeus and Alexander, excommunicated by Paul in the Acts of the Apostles. [3]

2nd century

Valentinus, proponent of Gnosticism
Marcion of Sinope, originator of Marcionism
Montanus, originator of Montanism
Theodotus of Byzantium, proponent of Adoptionism, excommunicated by Pope Victor I

3rd century

Sabellius, originator of Sabellianism
Novatian, an early antipope who taught Novatianism
Paul of Samosata, excommunicated by a synod at Antioch in 269
Marcellus of Ancyra

There are more - I've covered them in the various study units I've undertaken.

Worse, in the early centuries you may ahve had to crawl in the dust in front of the church to beg re-admittance.

And to bring this up to date, here's the list for the past two centuries

20th century

Bishops in China who joined the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association and ordained bishops without papal approval. [citation needed]
John XXIII excommunicated Fidel Castro in 1962 [citation needed]
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Bishops Antonio de Castro Meyer, Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta for theEcône Consecrations (Society of St. Pius X) without papal mandate. Formally declared to have incurred latae sententiae excommunication by Cardinal Bernardin Gantin on July 1, 1988. [19] [20] The excommunications of the latter four (the bishops consecrated in that 1988 ceremony) were lifted in 2009; the first two (the consecrator and the co-consecrator) had died in the meantime. [citation needed]
Father Romolo Murri, a leader of the Italian Catholic Democrats, for giving speeches against Papal policy [21]
Juan Perón, in 1955, after he signed a decree ordering the expulsion of Argentine bishops Manuel Tato and Ramón Novoa [22] [23]
All Catholics who participated in the creation of an independent church in the Philippines, in 1902 [24]
Alfred Loisy, a French cleric associated with modernism. [citation needed]
Leonard Feeney, a U.S. Jesuit priest who defended the strict interpretation of the Roman Catholic doctrine "outside the Church there is no salvation", arguing thatbaptism of blood and baptism of desire are unavailing. [citation needed] Feeney was later fully reconciled to the Church before his death. [citation needed]
All Catholics who participated in the trial of Archbishop Aloysius Stepinac, which included most of the jury members. [25]
Feliksa Kozlowska and the Mariavite movement in December 1906 by St Pius X [citation needed]
Plaquemines Parish President Leander Perez, Jackson G. Ricau (secretary of the Citizens Council of South Louisiana) and Mrs. B.J. Gaillot, Jr., president of Save Our Nation, Inc., on April 16, 1962 by Archbishop Joseph Rummel of the Archdiocese of New Orleans. They were excommunicated for aggressively opposing the racial integration of Catholic schools in the Archdiocese starting in the 1963-64 school year. Perez and Ricau were later reinstated into the Church following public retractions. [26]
John Duryea, priest at Stanford University and in Palo Alto, California, in 1976
Tissa Balasuriya, Sri Lankan Catholic priest, excommunicated in 1997 for his doctrinal views but had this excommunication lifted a year later after admitting "perceptions of error", and agreeing to submit all future writings to his bishops for their imprimatur.

21st century

Members of multiple organizations in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska were excommunicated by Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz in March 1996 for promoting positions he deemed "totally incompatible with the Catholic faith". [27] The organizations include Call to Action, Catholics for a Free Choice, Planned Parenthood, the Hemlock Society, the Freemasons, and the Society of St. Pius X. The Vatican later confirmed the excommunication of Call to Action members in November 2006. [27]
Emmanual Milingo, former archbishop of Lusaka, for consecrating four bishops without the papal mandate. Also excommunicated were those receiving consecration. [28]
The Community of the Lady of All Nations for heretical teachings and beliefs after a six-year investigation. The declaration was announced by the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops on September 12, 2007. [29]
Fr. Dale Fushek (also laicized by Pope Benedict XVI 02/2010) and Fr. Mark Dippre. Former Priests were issued a Decree of Excommunication by Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted for operating "an opposing ecclesial community" in direct disobedience to orders to refrain from public ministry. [30]
Fr. Marek Bozek (since laicized by Pope Benedict XVI), and the lay parish board members of St. Stanislaus Kostka Church in St. Louis, Missouri in December 2005 were declared guilty of the ecclesiastical crime of schism by then-Archbishop Raymond Leo Burke. [31] Their excommunication was ratified by the Vatican in May 2008. Four of the parish board members have since reconciled with the Church.
The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife in Brazil, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, announced the automatic excommunication of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girlwho had an abortion after being raped and impregnated by her stepfather. [32] [33] The National Conference of Bishops of Brazil refuted the announcement: it declared that, in accordance with canon law, the girl's mother was not in fact excommunicated and that there were no grounds for stating that any of the doctors involved were in fact excommunicated. [34] Disagreement with the Archbishop's view of the supposed excommunication was expressed also by other bishops. [35] [36]
Sr. Margaret McBride, a nun, for allowing an abortion. [37] McBride later reconciled with the church and is no longer living in a state of excommunication.
All the Catholics and legislators who promoted the abortion law in Uruguay. [38] [39] [40]
Fr. Roy Bourgeois (also laicized and dismissed from the Maryknoll Fathers) for participating in the ordination of a woman. [41]
Fr. Robert Marrone, by Bishop Richard Gerard Lennon of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Cleveland in Cleveland, Ohio for violating the terms of his leave of absence. Marrone set up a worshipping community (the Community of St. Peter's) in a vacant warehouse and outside of a Catholic building or church after St. Peter's Parish in Cleveland was closed (it has since been reopened), in defiance of the bishop . [42]
Fr. Roberto Francisco Daniel, known by local community as "Father Beto", by Bishop Caetano Ferrari, from Bauru, Brazil. Daniel was excommunicated because he refused a direct order from his bishop to apologize for or retract his statement that love was possible between people of the same sex. The priest also said a married person who chose to have an affair, heterosexual or otherwise, would not be unfaithful as long as that person's spouse allowed it. [43] [44] [45]
Fr Greg Reynolds of Melbourne was excommunicated for continuing to celebrate Mass when not permitted and advocating women priests. This was reported by the Melbourne Age 21 September 2013.

Note the last one - just last week in Australia.

Ex-communication/Disfellwoshipping is the dark and nasty side of the Jesus cult called Christianity

The JWs cop the flak of former members because there is no way you can leave/resign/whatever with dignity. That's where they are different to all the other nasty little dictators

zound

You could make the distinction this way:

Cults. (destructive high control)

Latent cults. (potential to be destructive high control)

Anything that requires blind faith without evidence (which is pretty much all religions) I would lump in one of these catagories.

Guilty until proven innocent ;p

losingit

Thank yiu everyone for the debate and all the suggestions. I am going to take snippets from what many of you wrote to continue the conversation with my friend.

Ihave been thinking alot and I believe that it is necessary to understand the impact that high control abusive groups play on individuals' lives. My friend sounds like he wants to be an advocate for gay Mormons. If that is the case, breaking out of the strictly sociological perspective and into the psychological will be important. There has to be an understanding of the dynamics involved.

help with sociologist friend...