by AjaxMan 16 Replies latest jw friends
Based on what I read from Yadirf's thread on Alternative Service, it does give me the impression that the WTS and the Jehovah's Witnesses hate the military, and that any JW who joins the military will be DF'd.
Therefore, I post the questions if JWs hate the military? I'd like to see all your views and explanations.
BTW rrmayer or rick, thanks for posting the "Soldier's Creed".
Being the ever so righteous Christians that JWs are (let the reader use discernment), they reason that if EVERYONE in the world were a JW then there would be no wars and therefore no need for militaries.
"As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible" - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126
Believe in yourself, not mythology.
<x ><
Hi AM,
Technically, jws can't df'd anyone who joins the military. (that's subversive) So they give a talk and say that person has chosen to disassociate him/herself from the congo of jws. (but its the same thing as df'ing, they are shunned). Lovely attitude isn't it!
Dave is right, in their little world they don’t need military protection if the whole world were jws, they have the elders to protect the flock.
j2bf
Its not just the military that is at the heart of the issue. Any public office or civic service that requires you take an oath of alliegance, salute the flag, carry a gun, or support the government in any way, are off limits to good JWs. The following was taken from this website:
http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/world.html
No Part of This WorldJesus Christ instructed his followers to be "no part of the world." Not to be "taken out of the world" but to be no part of it. Why were they no part of it ? Because Jesus "chose them out of the world" as his deciples and heirs of the kingdom. But how were they to be not part of it ? Was he ruling out all political, economic and social involvement in the present world ? No, he did not state this, but rather warned his followers of the coming persecution they would receive for putting faith in him and following his teachings of faith, mercy and love, including the moral code and preaching to others about the Christ. This is how Jesus followers would be "no part of the world." (John 17:11, 14-19)
This moral decadence and selfishness of the world are precisely what the context of Apostle James words are about in chapter 4, stating that there are many "arguments and fights", coming from the selfish desires of persons, while many "pray but do not receive" what they ask for because they are asking for only their own self pleasures, but as Christians we should be "loyal to God", and pray according to his will, not being a "friend of the world", in pursuit of our self pleasures over the welfare of others, that is hurting others, stepping on them or failing to show kindness to them in order to pursue our pleasures, which makes us "enemies of God", but to imitate Christ, "considering others superior to us" and being humble, "faithful and discreet slaves", "freely forgiving" "all persons, especially those in the faith."
This is the context of James chapter 4 verses 1 to 10, that is, not to put selfish desires first in our lives above showing mercy and kindness to others, as the majority of the people in the world do. To apply verse 4, along with Jesus words of being "no part of the world", as not celebrating various holidays, not saluting the flag and a blanket restriction against all political, economic and social involvement is to put a legalistic external meaning, taking these scriptures completely out of their context as the Watchtower Society does. (James 4:1-10; Matt 25:45-47; Phil 2:1-4; Col 3:13-15; Gal 6:10)
Apostle Paul tells us that we are not "not to use the world to the full" and Apostle John confirms, being "no part of the world" is not to love the "things in the world", and the showy display of them ahead of helping others, wanting things to please our selfish and sinful desires of the flesh over empathy and consideration of others. This is how we are to be "no part of the world" in harmony with Jesus words, not as a blanket condemnation against all or any involvement in the world governments, which act as "God's minister" to "bear the sword to those who do bad." Certainly where governments do wrong, then we "obey God as a ruler, rather then men", but on other issues and involvement there of, it is up to each individual Christian's conscience, being "fully convinced in his own mind", not the mind of a religious organization, slave class or governing body. (1 John 2:15-17; Romans 13:1-7; 1 Cor 7:31; Rom 14:5)
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
Really? They can announce you DAing yourself for joining the military?
How does that work?
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
X, think about it, if you were a good little publisher who one day decided to join the military, what would the logical series of events be?
You get visit from Elders for counseling
You tell them "No, I'm still going".
Clearly you are unrepentant and unwilling to abide by the rules.
You get further counseling and you are faced w/a choice.
Get the public rebuke and probably the DF/DA, or you DA yourself and they announce it at a meeting.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
Well, I know that's what they'd TRY to do, but I'm arguing that I don't think they CAN do it.
I mean, they can't announce you DA'd yourself without your consent (or you'd sue them, and hey, you're in the military with nothing better to do in your off time and no cost of living expenses, so...).
And, they can't DF you. For obvious reasons.
They could announce you being reproved, but that's all, I would think...
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
I just left the JW, so my thinking is probably still biased, so keep that in mind.
I agree with what Elsewhere said. JW believe they are "no part of the world". Of course they are still on the earth, but part of being no part of the world means they have to be strictly neutral in regards to clashes between governments of the world, although they are supposed to respect the government of whatever land they live in. The WTS actually regrets statements it made during WWII expressing a hope that Hitler would be defeated. That along with the fact that they believe a Christian isn't supposed to kill, would keep them from having anything to do with the military. So yes if a Witness joined the military they would be DF'd or it would be considered an act of disassociation. In fact, the Organized to Accomplish our Ministry Book in chapter 12 under the subheading Disassociation says
"a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization the objective of which is contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God."Of course this means any organization that the WTS says is bad. Those organizations include the military, political parties, any other religious groups, and jobs in companies that only produce weapon for war or that make cigarettes, etc. Do JW hate the military? I didn't personally feel I hated them. We were supposed to be neutral. Does the WTS hate them? We were supposed to hate what is bad. And I think the military as a whole is considered bad. So maybe so.
Maxwell
would the above quote apply to joining the U.N. ???? ciro's still a jw, i guess he was repentant....right.........
Wow, lots of people posted while I was typing up my reply. I'd just like to say that here in the DC metropolitan area, many JW work for the federal government. I work for an agency that is under the Department of Commerce, and I was a JW when I started the job. All of these positions require that you take an oath, although I don't think you could describe it as an oath of allegiance. If I remember correctly, you just say you'll do your best on your job and you won't try to hurt the US with the civil service position you have. I had no problem with the oath, although I remember that day I was nervous because of my first day and I accidentally had my left hand up instead of my right hand while taking the oath. I guess they didn't notice; there were about 20 of us in the room. I did later hear of an incident where a studying person or new JW was a bit worried about taking the oath and went and called an elder before going through with it.
Maxwell
