If there is a god..

by snare&racket 94 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  latinthunder

  I responded that the things written about Jesus - whether they are true of not - portray a dangerous, unethical cult leader.

  Which is precisely why the New Testament is suspect. To find the true Christ using the NT, you have to wade through the propaganda. With how much research we now have with high control groups, we can clearly see what was put into the mouth of the historical figure of Christ as opposed to what he actually said and did. Using science we can now unearth the actual man and separate him from the myths created to falsely exalt him.

  Joseph Smith is a perfect example of someone who is slowly becoming more and more mythological as time goes on. Give the Mormon church a few thousand years and Smith will be walking on water, turning water into wine and be immaculately conceived. The tales must be told or else the figure fades into history and becomes ordinary.

  Yet, I cannot help but wonder what part Christ played in the destruction of the Roman Empire. Because, if his actions DID destroy the fabric of the civilized world, what does that say about who he was?

  What is the Logos, anyway?
• 

  willmarite

  Thanks cofty for the welcome. I do realize that Jesus' message was not original. I also admire the teachings of Gautama Buddha. Because Jesus' message wasn't original doesn't make his teachings such as the Sermon on the mount of less value.

  I don't think it wise to judge somebody on the basis of a few sayings that we may not understand because they were directed to people 2000 yrs. ago. Or perhaps he was quoted out of context. Or perhaps Jesus said those things out of imperfection. The gist of his teachings were a great step up in consciousness for the people who lived 2000 yrs. ago.

  While it is true that Constantine make "christianity" the state religion, he didn't do so until the fourth century around 300 yrs. after Jesus died. It must be admitted that Jesus' teachings had an impact in order for Constantine to even consider making christianity the state religion.
• 

  EndofMysteries

  Relating to my first post on the 1st page of this thread, I think also the scripture that says to "keep testing the inspired expressions, whether they originate with God", may have hinted/meant to keep testing the scriptures, because some of what is recorded may not have originated from him.

  Even within the scriptures themselves God says how the scribes have written in falsehood, etc.
• 

  DJS

  Cofty,

  I alluded to Buddha a few weeks ago regarding Jesus' teachings; but the theists would have to actually read something other than the bible and that isn't likely to happen. The 8 fold pathway alone trumps almost everything else in the NT by its brevity, conciseness and intelligence. I want to thank you and Snare for taking many for the team.
• 

  cofty

  I don't think it wise to judge somebody on the basis of a few sayings that we may not understand because they were directed to people 2000 yrs. ago

  His imminent return in glory formed the theme of his teachings as the gospels progress. His disciples abandoned families and responsibilities based on that false promise. You can see the false expectations in Acts and the epistles. He encouraged persecution and family hatred and told his followers to view it as a blessing when their new cult caused a breach in family relationships.

  Of course we can pick and choose the nice bits and reject the rest as unauthentic if we want.

  There are a few gems in the bible but it's hardly worth writing home about.

  For some reason the cult of Jesus took off. Hundreds of other similar apocalyptic cults withered. We only know of the one that succeeded of course.

  DJS - Its intersting that christians so easily dismiss other wisdom sayings.
• 

  tec

  It is funny how you can make statements about how reprehensible Christ is or how the bible is nothing to write home about... and yet, you were an evangelist (bible thumper) for 9 years, and a jw elder for however long before that. An organization that teaches its members TO disfellowship and shun its members, and also casts people OUT.

  Christ neither preached not did ANY of these things.

  As for the families and businesses etc that the disciples left to follow Christ... because He WAS the promised Messiah... a) men leave their families to earn wages all the time, to provide for their families... these men followed Christ and worked for LIFE, and it is entire families that are saved, even if just through the faith of the one man (like Abraham, like Noah, like the entire houses protected by the blood of a lamb on the doorstep)... but one who is blind cannot lead another blind man to life... and b) you do not know that they did not return to their families at the end of their ministry or that their families did come to them (as they could have... there were women and mothers following along as well).

  (And theists read other than the bible all the time)

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  cofty

  It is funny how you can make statements about how reprehensible Christ is or how the bible is nothing to write home about...

  No it's not funny really. I kept an open mind and continued thinking and researching and looking at my beliefs in the light of new information. When my beliefs began to collide with reality I took the painful step of changing my beliefs. I refused to do what you do and twist reality to fit my beliefs.

  Some of us spend a decade gaining ten years of experience - others have the same expeience ten times and learn nothing.
• 

  tec

  I don't twist reality to fit my beliefs, Cofty... what would be the point in that? Reality simply does not conflict with Truth... and nothing Christ has ever taught has ever been anything other than Truth.

  You still focus on what you WANT to see from the bible... instead of focusing solely upon Christ to see God. So you still don't see Him.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  cofty

  nothing Christ has ever taught has ever been anything other than Truth.

  His promise of an imminent parousia was a lie.

  He preached that not one iota of the Law should be done away with until the end of time. The same law that preached bigotry and misogyny.

  Of course you will say that he never said those things because you invent your own reality constantly and nothing can be allowed to contradict the voices.
• 

  tec

  His promise of an imminent parousia was a lie.

  He never said when He was returning... He in fact preached all sorts of things would happen first that had not happened.

  He even WARNED that no one knew the day or hour... including him.

  He even WARNED that most/all would fall asleep.

  He preached that not one iota of the Law should be done away with until the end of time.

  He did not say that at all. You should know that, right?

  He said... until ALL IS ACCOMPLISHED.

  That He came to FULFILL the law; and then He said, when He gave up his life: It is finished.

  The same law that preached bigotry and misogyny.

  He corrected all manner of things on the law Cofty. Rebuking those who used it to judge others and to NOT show mercy or forgiveness or love... all of which were the most important matters of the law; including that ALL of the law stemmed from LOVE.

  You know these things right? Being a former christian and all?

  Of course you will say that he never said those things because you invent your own reality constantly and nothing can be allowed to contradict the voices.

  Actually its just what is written. Right there in black and white for anyone to see. Except perhaps those who are unwilling to see, so that now they can NOT see.

  Peace,

  tammy