A Manual for Creating Atheists by Peter Boghossian

by cofty 188 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  EdenOne

  Cofty,

  To get back on this thread's focus as you requested, I would say "Why not?". After all, haven't religious people, notably amongst them, the Jehovah's Witnesses, been attempting to proselityze others since our inception? What moral authority would I have if I would criticize an atheist for attempting to proselytize a believer? My criticism goes to those who criticize the Witnesses for preaching religion all the while themselves are caught doing exactly the same thing for science (in this case, atheism wrapped in science) on every possible ocasion. That's all.

  Is there merit in the endeavour? If the goal is to cause a believer to lose faith in the divine being (in abstract, whomever that person considers to be his/hers divinity, Jehovah or someone else), I think that in itself it has no merit whatsoever. If, on the other hand, the goal is to help someone to use reason to reach a more balanced view of life and the cosmos, and better separate what is 'material' from what is 'spiritual', then I concede that there might be some merit to it.

  However, I would add, given the title of the book, its purpose is very clear.

  Eden
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  EdenOne

  Jgnat, thank you for the article, btw. Interesting reading so far.

  Eden
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  cofty

  If the goal is to cause a believer to lose faith in the divine being ... I think that in itself it has no merit whatsoever.

  Why not?
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  Captain Obvious

  But once someone learns to sort through fact and fiction ie. material from spiritual, how can they NOT lose faith in a deity? The spiritual cannot be tested, therefore cannot be true. Once someone realizes that, a deity is not important.
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  jgnat

  Captain, I think this is more a problem for the fundamentalist, literal folks. If we take faith and spirituality out of the realm of the literal, and stop trying to jam it in to the scientific realm, it can work just fine.

  http://charterforcompassion.org/
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  Laika

  There is no salvation outside of atheism.
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  EdenOne

  Captain,

  If that's the outcome that YOU arrive to, you take responsability for it. But you don't seem to be ready to accept that there may be different outcomes for different people, because you already have a pre-disposition to believe in it in a certain way. You say that spiritual cannot be tested, therefore cannot be true. I disagree.

  Consider for a moment the speed of light in vaccuum. Since 1676, with Ole Romer, that it was demonstrated that light travelled at a finite speed. But exactly how fast? Now, imagine that I lived in 1676 and claimed that light travelled at 299,792,458 metres per second. With the technology of that era this could not be demonstrated. Therefore, as per your reasoning, since it could not be tested, therefore it could not be true. It was only in 1975 that this could be demonstrated. However, back in 1676, I would be right, and you would be wrong! Just because the 'spiritual cannot be tested', this doesn't mean it cannot be true.

  It may never be tested, or it may be tested sometime in the future. But that lack of testing doesn't render it impossible, only less probable, as per what we know today.

  Eden
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  cofty

  Why do beleivers try to prove things with metaphors and illustrations?
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  EdenOne

  Cofty,

  To me, there is merit in educating people to use their mental abilities have a better understanding of the world and the universe around them and therefore live a better life. If that leads people to question the usefulness of a divine entity, it's purpose, and ultimately, the very need for the existence of such entity, so be it. The outcome may lead to atheism, to agnosticism, to apatheism, or to an invigorated sense of theism or spirituallity. However, to set oneself for the goal to destroy the sense of spirituallity, the sense of connection to someone and something greater than ourselves, that is to kill something within us that makes us being uniquely humans. To "kill" God is to kill also part of our humanity.

  Eden
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  EdenOne

  Why do beleivers try to prove things with metaphors and illustrations?

  Why do science teachers do the same, Cofty?

  Eden