Goodbye JWD/JWN (my last post) (page 28)

Wonka

"Living the Dream's" story seems more interesting now all of a sudden.

Whether it is Jehovah, Allah, G_D, or Whomever you prefer to call our creator, why do people allow an organization to cause them to drift away from GOD? It is not humans that you are serving, but an All Loving GOD. Return to GOD despite what you believe or which faith you choose to follow. It is the intent of your heart that will save you, not a specific religion or organization. I am with GOD no matter what church I attend or what I believe. I choose to believe what makes sense to me, not what someone else is forcing upon me. Love GOD, not the organization that claims to represent Him.......

E.

kepler

I'm a little late on this "good-bye" thread, but I would like to add a sorry that SBF has left. He seemed like a nice guy with some interesting perspectives and pursued a number of studies seriously. I meant to pick up on a thread he started on good history books to read, any recommendations?

I wonder if he is still interested?

But the notion that he would go back to being a practicing JW did not take me completely by surprise. My reason for that was our discussions on a thread that I had started about a year ago.

	“Truly I say to you,…” “Amen I say to you,”… Inferences from a Gospel manner of speech 2 3

The issue was whether there was any ambiguity in what Christ said to the Good Thief in Luke 23:38-40. I believed that as described by Luke, Christ was saying that the thief would be in paradise that very day. Others, including SBF, believed that the thief still had to go through an elaborate process, not to mention being vetted as one of the 144,000 elect after Christ's invisible return to earth millenia later.

And I suspect a whole lot of people on this forum would agree with SBF about that. Why? Because that was something they had been told despite the visible evidence of context and what they had just read. To be sure its readers got the point, the NWT put a comma in the text so that it was clear that Christ agreed with the translation departments a priori view on this.

I had compiled a list of all the other "Truly I say to you" expressions uttered by Christ in the Gospels and noted that this translation was inconsistent. Also, in Acts, by the same author, I found an instance where Paul swore an oath "on that day" and it was not consistent with Christ saying the good thief would be kept in a holding tank either.

SBF thought he had solved the problem for himself because he was aware of a Syraic translation, I believe, that was consistent with the requirement that Christ had to return to Earth first. It looked like the Syraic translators of Luke's Greek had syntax in it that would postpone Christ's promise. It was not elaborated, but the alert reader of Luke would realize that it would come an account payable after some formula introduced by Daniel and then detailed by revelations in Revelations and revealed even further via a printing press in Brooklyn's perishable paper.

That's just the way redemption was supposed to work.

Now I guess there are those sleeping better above ground knowing that the Good Thief is still asleep under it waiting his turn behind the WTBTS annointed and its governing board.

confusedandalone

" I had compiled a list of all the other "Truly I say to you" expressions uttered by Christ in the Gospels and noted that this translation was inconsistent. "

It is truly a shame that people base there entire lives off of words uttered by someone that didn't that even make suuuuuuuuuuuure that the proper meaning was retained in some way shape or form. At some point one and intelligent person must ask themselves why is this life saving work not recorded in a way that every person can understand it easily without have to spend days worth of studying to benefit.

Vidiot

emeth - "The negative speech of others can influence us... We do not know all the facts... Do not allow negative speech to affect you..."

Holy cut-and-paste, Batman!

clarity

Brock .......

BluesBrother

I am also late to this thread, and I am saddened by the manner of SBF's departure. I do know,however how difficult it is to walk the tightrope of acceptability to one's dub family and to maintain a clear viewpoint of the TATT. Many is the time that I have wondered whether I should just say "S** the doctrine and all that I know", and just jump in running to the dub way of life with all the activities, the psuedo-theology and self important "accurate knowledge" . Then I could become a part of the movement with associations and friendships and make my wife's life a good deal easier since she would no longer be a "spiritual widow"

Truth is though, I know that I could never carry it off, not now, knowing what I do ...the bubble burst before I joined this forum and I cannot pretend that it would ever be the same.

Slimboy feels that he can, that is fine - for him...I wonder if he will be able to view the WT and the G B in the manner that he used to do? Or will there always be reservations on his part? ?

Pistoff

I would do a lot to stay in a marriage, but an ultimatum from the wife would not make me go to meetings.

That is a soul crushing place, for me anyway.

I wish SBF all the best, will miss him.

SanLuisObispoTruthSeeker

I found this thread to be one of the most loving and kind expressions from all the members on JWN, you people (atheists to polytheists) amaze me with your compassion and loving kindness I rarely discovered in the Kingdom Halls. You all are really cool!

You think Slim has peaked on this site to see all the well wishes everyone is sending his way, you helped him learn the truth about the Organization, I doubt Slim is going to let some Beavis and Butthead Elder-Body tag-team him after listening to all the wise and learned people here! Once again, this thread has the life-blood of JWN, the majority of comments are kind and loving and warning him to watch out, thank you for showing me all the good people here.

steve2

For those of us with family still in the organization - in contrast to those with no family in the organization - the reasons for remaining or returning are entirely different.

As a third-generation raised JW with both paternal and maternal JW grandparents, I keenly appreciate the constraints on me that would not be there were there no organizational family connections.

Oh, I would never go back - but it powerfully shapes how I have worked through my own beliefs about the religion in ways that those without JW family connections would perhaps ever realize. Religion is seldom, if ever, about "personal" beliefs, but more about others' expectations and ability to sanction and withhold all manner of social and familial goods. The "good news" for me is my family's involvement appears less intense and dedicated than it once was. But I dare not use this observation for it would stir up renewed activity. Religious people are motivated by all manner of things, behaving rationally and sensibly being way down the list of considerations.

I do not personally know SBF - but I should imagine the constraints for him are qualitiatively different than if he were the only one (left) in his family or extended family with JW connections.

Goodbye JWD/JWN (my last post)