by frankiespeakin 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
runforever - please tell us which books that present the evidence for evolution you have read recently.
I'm sure you wouldn't be so ignorant as to reject the foundation of biology without knowing what you're talking about.
If you really want to know about the evolution of body plans we could tell you about Hox genes, tool-kit genes and evolutionary developmental biology.
" I'm sure you wouldn't be so ignorant as to reject the foundation of biology without knowing what you're talking about." - cofty
It's funny but you're trying to use this statement as if somehow it proves mutationism true. We all know that's a logical fallacy. Appeal to authority, consensus and it's not anything to base your *beliefs* or *understanding* of anything on.
I do actually quite regularly listen to Dawkins, Stephen law or anybody to see if they have a good point or points. They often do. I just watched the whole video of Coyne talk about why evolution is true. He spent some time on the intro and I see some bias(flipping off creationists for example) not
that that means someone is necessarily wrong but it's definitely something that CAN influence someone. So I do and have listened to mutationists.
Nothing in his presentation was really compelling.
Let me translate that for runforever:
"err no I have never read any books on the scientific evidence for evolution"
runforever - What is a "mutationist" and how do you "flip" off a creationist?
It's an interesting video.
I'm trying to be objective and have an open mind.
I can accept we evolve.
I can accept the dna switches.
I can see the argument for a common ancestor.
You've come a long way James.
Thank you Cofty.
I'm retired now. I have more time to look into things.
I appreciate your opinions and insight.
I have no reason to look for anything other than the truth.
Hi i don't pass comment here very often as not a witness, though would like to make two points on this thread if i may.
1/ 98% of all species that have ever existed on the earth are now extinct.
2/I have yet to see or hear of a documetery such as the video in the first post to surport the creationilist argument, though i am sure if there is such it will be pointed out to me, lol.
Just my thought on this, the only thing i think has the remotest possibility of ever being created by any thing, or one for that matter is the DNA strand.
AMO
Run forever, you clearly rsndomly looked at a dawkins video google search..... stephen law is a philosopher not a biologist and that is just one video on YouTube about animal/human behaviour and free will and religion, nothing to do with evolutionary biology.
Run, I have no idea why you keep saying "change shape", your ignorance in the topic by saying this is equivelant to a child denying gravity and saying "the sky doesnn't fall".
Just relax s minute and start over, your understsnding of what evolution even is, is some distance off reality. You think you are making a good point to mockingly refer to a changing shape for example , but mutations do that before our eyes dsily, such as the mutation that changes the shape of a red blood cell... You can have a spherical mutations or sickle cell mutations for example. Or what about cancers, seversl mutations that together create a mass of unique shape and size.
You do realise these examples change via mutation over generations, so a mutation is there at birth in sickle cell, it isnt that you mutate the gene at age 11 and then it changes shape? I am not sure what you believe you know about evolution, but saying "shape" was a poor choice because we see it all the time.
Bacteria change shape when new wall complexes are formed through evolution vis natural selection.... We can watch it happen, predict it happening and even make it happen.
About every 4 years we have viral epidemics, this is because it takes about 4 years for the evolution of a new strsnd to dominate the colonies and access the population, they make us ill because they sre newly shaped, our bodies don't recognise them and so we have to vaccinate retrospectively once we have bottled the strain,
So you see..... Saying "shape" really did you no favours. I really suggest chapter 1 of sny good biology book. My favourite was Campbell and Reece 'Biology' the chapters on evolution and genetics will see you right!
Snare x
AMO the formation of dna is a very complex topic (abiogenesis), but already we are beyond that and attempting to establish how RNA was formed and paticularly the development of ribosomes.
In the 1950's Miller, a biology student, set up an experiment with the atmosphere, temperature, moisture levels and charged particles as expected in earths early life.... Very quickly nucleic acids formed in the beakers below, nucleic acids from thin air!
Once these acids join together with a sugar (sugars are just hydrogen carbon and oxygen joined together) and some basic elements it is a poece of dna ( deoxyribosenucleicacid). People don't realise that we are not talking about lego when we talk about atoms and small molecules, lego requiring people to click it together to form a shape or object, rather atoms and small molecules all have charges and so naturally interact with each other all the time. So unlike lego, organic material attempts to interact with itself, tries to join together... Add to this the elelment of time and the universe has been and is constantly running its own experiments! So when as a JW we used to talk about evolution etc and compare it to a house forming itself together from a pile of bricks and piping and slate etc we were simply making evident how ignorant we were, as due to physics and nuclear forces...that is EXACTLY how it works!
So nucleic acids forming in early eaths atmospheric conditions is no small thing,,,, it's not as impossible as it first appears, there is no reason st all to think DNA needed a creator. To be honest DNA formstion is understood well, it is RNA (ribosenucleicacid) and its interactions with ribosomes that is causing a lot of head scratching.
