Evolution - What Darwin Never Knew

by frankiespeakin 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  THE GLADIATOR

  If ignorance were bliss, then there would be some benefit in burying our head in the sand. This tactic doesn’t even work for the poorly evolved ostrich, which despite being a bird cannot fly. Instead such an approach robs intelligent humans of a once in a lifetime opportunity to appreciate the wonder of this planet, which has taken billions of years to reach this stage of development.

  We live at a wonderful time in history where we know more about the world and how it works than ever before. When I was a kid, evolution was a theory. Since the discovery of DNA and Carbon Dating, it has become fact. It is tragic that people offered an abundance of research and proven facts; dismiss all evidence that does not fit in with their belief in an invisible creator.

  As Richard Dawkins says; “The truth, is more magical – in the best and most exciting sense of the word – than any myth or made-up mystery or miracle.”
• 

  cantleave

  Here's a start for those who haven't read it yet

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/adult/244307/1/The-Common-Ancestry-Thread#.Umu2_HBhCSo
• 

  snare&racket

  Run forever, your name says much....

  pro logos... Jesus mate, you think they couldn't dissect snakes back then? You are thinking about it backwards, like noah and the rainbow... How did noah know that rainbows were associated with rain! That proves god? ...nah.... rainbows came with the rain! Job and the 'circle' of the earth? The earth was believed to be circular from ancient Greece, the egyptians even worked out the circumference of the earth to 3 decimal places using trig.

  A snake looks like a lizard without legs... Its hardly a deity inspired idea, also how funny that you are using evolutionary evidence and science to sgree and prove god is true.... So you take that fact from evolutionary biology and say 'that ones true!'..... Random acceptance..thats smart.

  No stone cutters...check your ass cheek for a birth mark and give up on the bogeyman in the cupboard... Wallace was a scientist in the rainforests, looking at butterflys and came up with the theory of evolution the same time as Darwin, they both published, but Darwin was awarded the first suggestion for the idea of evolution following a debate. Since Darwin the evolutionary sciences have been taken on and tested and developed by hundreds of thousands of scientists.... Darwin could have been a nazi, a nut job, a mushroom eating hippy, a mason.... But what he said that has been proven true...has still been proven TRUE. Darwin famously stopped believing in god, with great guilt, as all that have left their faith will understand. i assume you have not read his words? To be a mason you had to believe in god...hence the original stonemason, the big letter G...god....
• 

  adamah

  Gladiator said-

  This tactic doesn’t even work for the poorly evolved ostrich, which despite being a bird cannot fly.

  Well, fortunately for the ostrich, that old meme about burying their heads in the sand is an old-wives tale which likely originated with Pliny the Elder. In reality, the ostrich runs, and doesn't serve as an anthromorphization of the trait of humans who seemingly believe "ignorance is bliss". From the American Ostrich Association:

  http://www.ostriches.org/factor.html#head

  Even the ostrich isn't as foolish as those humans who refuse to see what they don't want to be true!

  Adam
• 

  prologos

  snare % racket, the name was given in my earlier days. The bible, like all books, the Bard even, all contain some passages that have been and will be valuable, found to be true. That does not make them inspired, I call it a lucky shot, the "four corners of the earth" written 100 years after JC is not.

  Much of the evolution debate seems to be about the process and the need- or not- for a tinkerer god. The evidence is NOT.

  The big question is also not about what humans can think and imagineon on the subject.

  I can see from my windows that the earth is round, all around, when a boat comes over the horizon, mast first. The Greeks measured the earth size pretty well (using a well) in the 3rd century BC.

  The big question is : "what is* beyond the greater Horizon, so

  keep watching, because

  on a clear day you can see forever (-almost, only 13.6 9thpower Years)

  * actually WAS beyond our observation capacity, we can not "see" the present.

  Darwin would be proud of us.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  DNA mutation rates:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_rate

  http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2010/01/the-speed-of-evolution.html

  An international collaboration between the Max Planck Institute and Indiana University analyzed the mutations of thirty mustard samples over five years. The painstaking research was intended to identify every change at every step, instead of the usual "Come back at the end and see what happened." They found an evolutionary speed of one base pair mutation per 140 million base pairs per generation. Each plant has 120 million, and when you add up how many millions of each plant there are and how fast they grow that's a breakneck genetic speed.....

  http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2012/01/understanding-mutation-rates-and.html

  http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2013/03/estimating-human-human-mutatin-rate.html

  The biochemical method relies on the well-known fact that the vast majority of mutations are due to errors in DNA replication. Since we know a great deal about the replication complex and the biochemistry of the reactions, we can calculate a mutation rate per DNA replication based on this knowledge. The details are explained in a previous post [ Mutation Rates ]. I'll give a brief summary here....
• 

  THE GLADIATOR

  adamah I stated that the tactic of burying one's head in the sand - doesn’t even work for the poorly evolved ostrich.

  Thank you for comments, but if you are going to start using big words like 'anthromorphization' I shall head for the sandpit.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Hey I'm thinking that as computer speed rises exponentially and quantum computer a real possiblity, I see a one of these computers going thru a program that vastly increases the DNA mutation rate and calculates each out come in a matter of minutes spit out the sequences needed for a better design and thru that process make us a more adaptable species with taylor made DNA for where ever we live and what ever we do. Scary but true I think.

  I'm thinking attractive smart improvements in body design, maybe even bigger brains with improved nueral net processor that make Einstien's brain look like the slow and very limited model. Or growing better limbs for amputies, new hearts any body part you need grow one in a couple of weeks with a long time life expectancy

  Maybe even houses that all you have to do is feed this DNA seed with nutrients and in a matter of weeks have a nice house.

  Of course all this makes the paradise earth the Jehovah Witnesses hope for look cheezzy by comparision to what technology have to offer.
• 

  cofty

  Could you, please, recommend some more (one or two) good scientific books about evolution - stillMS

  Hi stillMS welcome. Here are a few suggestions...

  "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne is a good accessible introduction to some of the main lines of evidence.

  "Life Ascending - The Ten Greatest Inventions of Evolution" by Nick Lane is one of my all time favourites that pushes the boundaries of latest hypotheses and includes the latest hypothesis on abiogenesis.

  "Evolution - What the Fossils Say" by Donald Prothero is quite an academic book but worth the effort to read. He also deals with objections to radiometric dating.

  "Endless Forms Most Beautiful" and "The Making of the Fittest" both by Sean B. Carroll are superb. They both deal with the newish field of Evolutionary developmental biology or "evo devo". He explains how genes make bodies and genetic switches control genes. Many of the common objections to the apparent limitations of natural selection are covered by these books.

  "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin describes his discovery of a fantastic transitional fossil Tiktaalik - the fish who could do press-ups. He also describes many other fascinating examples of evidence for evolution including comparative anatomy and embryology.

  "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins is the definitive guide to the evidence. It's not a book that will give you many knock-down arguments against creationism but it describes the positive case for evolution in great detail. Highly recommended. There is a partial summary of it here...

  "The Blind Watchmaker" also by Dawkins is a must for any former creationist. It tackles the argument from design head on. I remember browsing it in a library when I was a JW and it scared the living daylights out of me. It took five minutes to see the Creation book was nonsense.

  "Why Darwin Matters" by Michael Shermer is a useful history of the Intelligent Design movement and is worth reading for to get the various disguises of creationism sorted in your mind.

  In addition there are lots of very good websites and blogs.

  I would highly recommend Dr Zachery Moore's "Evolution 101 Podcast" ..

  Hope this helps.