this site sucks! its just a buncha athiest on soap boxes.

by crossquestions6995 167 Replies latest jw friends

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  steve2

  abbasgreta - your faith deserves a more cogent defense than the hodge-podge you provided. Based on your reasoning, JWs are also "true" Christians given the rate with which they are still persecuted in many lands. In South Korea, for example, scores of military-training age witnesses are imprisoned each year for refusing to take part in compulsory military training.

  Oh, BTW, in China, members of Falun Gong are relentlessly persecuted, imprisoned and worse by the government for sincerely trying to practise their humble beliefs - can they also claim to be a true faith because they're persecuted?
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  crossquestions6995

  Abba... I wish I had started the thread with more grace, like you. And I agree 100% with ur first post.

  And to the "troll" name callers and contradiction spotters.... its called admitting when ur wrong. And I did this when I started out this thread with less than pleasant words.

  The fact of the matter is, this thread has proven my original reason for posting this topic. There are those who may not be as aggresive in the God/Christian bashing. But unfortunatly u are drowned out by the more vocal and less helpful of ur peers. Name calling, pointless critique, and belittling any believer in God that has dared post on this topic.

  Moral of the story=

  1) every smart person is an atheist.(if not ur dumb)

  2) if ur not one then it means u are at a lower level in ur journey (dont worry tho ull get there eventually)

  3) Gods a fairy tale cuz bad things happen.

  4) if u dont debate me then ur living a lie and have no basis for ur belief.
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  love2Bworldly

  If you don't like the messages & posts on here, why do you keep coming on here to post is my question? Apparently you enjoy arguments & stirring up drama.

  It's only natural people who are trying to heal from coming out of a nasty cult that puts up with abuse, pedophiles and does its best to break up families, that a lot of people are not going to feel warm and cuddly toward religion.

  I have found more encouraging people on here who are way more warm & fuzzy than the Jdumbs who claim to be Christlike. And I have involved in several churches since I left the Jdumbs, and the churches were so full of drama, bullshit & judgemental people that I had left them all.
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  Gopher

  Hi CQ6995 - Thought I'd jump in with a brief reply.

  There are those who may not be as aggresive in the God/Christian bashing. But unfortunatly u are drowned out by the more vocal and less helpful of ur peers.

  People who simply don't believe (and speak out about it) are not necessarily "bashing". It's just a lack of belief. It seems like you can deal with the fact that not everyone agrees with you. (Most atheists have learned to deal with that quite well, because atheists are a decided minority.) Also - unfortunately the reasonable believers (of whatever stripe - Christian, Muslim, Jewish,etc.) are drowned out by the more vocal and extreme of their particular faith. That's how the world works, they who make the most noise unfortunately get the most attention and notoriety.

  As for your moral,

  1) every smart person is an atheist.(if not ur dumb)

  2) if ur not one then it means u are at a lower level in ur journey (dont worry tho ull get there eventually)

  3) Gods a fairy tale cuz bad things happen.

  4) if u dont debate me then ur living a lie and have no basis for ur belief.

  Point #1 is not true, and I don't think most atheists would say it isn't true. I'm an unbeliever, and I have smart friends and close family members whose belief system is near the center of their lives. However if believers start to use nonsense or non-sequitors in their discussion, such things will be called out.
  
  Point #2 is not true. Atheism / unbelief definitely isn't for everybody. Life isn't a journey where everyone ends up with what one side or another thinks is the "logical" stance. Point #2 is no more true than the notion that every atheist turns into a believer while in a foxhole or on their deathbed.
  
  Point #3 is an oversimplification. But seriously a major reason for reasonable doubt about any deity's existence is the existence of gross evil and suffering in this world.
  
  Point #4 - nobody is required to defend their belief / disbelief if they are not so inclined. However if somebody makes gross generalizations about those on the other side of the fence (i.e. - "all believers are delusional" or "all unbelievers have no reason to be moral"), then the generalizer should be called out on it.
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  jgnat

  So insulting. I call myself a Christian but I'm not sure I would meet your "standards".

  I would characterize your time here as, "See, the natives are hostile. I unsult their village, they are all in an uproar. I apologized, sort-of. I promised to leave but didn't, shaking my sandals as I go, and look at them. Still frothing at the mouth."

  I manage to get along with the athiest contingent just fine. Maybe some day you will wonder why.
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  jgnat

  Gopher, I would correct this:

  "But seriously a major reason for reasonable doubt about any [benevolent] deity's existence is the existence of gross evil and suffering in this world."
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  jgnat

  
• 

  cofty

  Moral of the story=

  1) every smart person is an atheist.(if not ur dumb)

  Belief or unbelief has nothing to do with being intelligent.

  2) if ur not one then it means u are at a lower level in ur journey (dont worry tho ull get there eventually)

  Yes. Going from the JW cult to chrsitianity is a trivial distiction. They both rest on identical myths. To an objectie outsider there is no difference at all.

  It is as much a shift in belief as some people are able to cope with.

  Maybe you will be able to honestly face up to the case against your beliefs one day or maybe you will go on pretending you have heard it all already. I suspect the latter.

  3) Gods a fairy tale cuz bad things happen.

  The arguments against theism are actually very thoughtful and compelling. Of course it's easier to you to pretend they are simplistic because then you can go on deluding yourself.

  4) if u dont debate me then ur living a lie and have no basis for ur belief.

  If you don't face up to the very best case against your beliefs then you are intellectually dishonest.
• 

  Gopher

  "But seriously a major reason for reasonable doubt about any [benevolent] deity's existence is the existence of gross evil and suffering in this world."

  Thanks jgnat, that is a very good way to express what I have been thinking.

  The logic has often been expressed in this set of statements:

  1. If an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent god exists, then evil does not.

  2. Evil exists in the world.

  3. Therefore an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent god does not exist.
• 

  tec

  Rest assured, crossquestions... even if you DO face the very best 'case' against your beliefs... as long as you do not succumb to that case and admit that a) your faith is irrational and/or based on nothing; or b) there is no God... then some of those 'anti-theists' will STILL label you as intellectually dishonest.

  I say anti-theists and not atheists becaues there is a distinction, and I am actually glad that the anti-theists are owning their own label, so that people can stop lumping in an atheist - who may be quite happy to live and let live, at least as long as others allow THEM to live and let live - with an anti-theist who may be just as black and white in his/her thinking as those whose faith they are fighting against.

  This forum (and pretty much any forum) has loving and kind and moral and supportive people of any 'faith or non-faith', and for many members the support found here (as well as the great amount of wts info, past and present) has been like a life-line for them upon their exit from the wts. This forum also has people who are much less supportive, lol... at least in regard to someone leaving the wts with their faith intact and/or stronger for having turned to Christ. But you cannot control that or what other people do. You can only control what YOU say and do. Others will react as they will. This forum also can be forgiving, so even though your OP and title are unfair, (except for a few people not so forgiving), many will accept your apology. Might be best to move on from THIS thread though ; )

  I said this on the other thread like this one, but I will repeat: Sometimes it may be helpful to consider that any false statement about Christ and God grants those who have faith in them and belong to them the opportunity to bear witness to the truth, instead. Because to be sure, this forum is not going to allow a statement of faith to go unchallenged, so that is something that one needs to be prepared for here.

  Peace to you,

  tammy