Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'

by Simon 178 Replies latest jw friends

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Scott,

    I find it very sad that after being here so long people could misunderstand my intentions. Precisely b/c of my background and experience I know what legal challenges are likely to be successful. I repeatedly try to explain what the law requires. Other lawyers here told me I was wacky b/c this is an ignorant community. Let people pay for legal information. Well, I will never give legal advice. The average American knows so little about the nature of our society. I merely try to educate what is possible and what will never happen. The WT cannot be destroyed. It is protected by the First Amendment. It can be constrained by a public education campaign. Choosing strategy wisely is an important part of radical activism. I suggest reading Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radical.s.

    People here want to do things to the WT that would outrage a nation. When you advocate such tactics, you boost the power of the WT. One thing I notice is the Silent Lambs scenarios. Calling attention to the two-witness rule is important work. If a statute requires reporting and they pull a two-witness rule, the Witnesses should be prosecuted. Reporting every lawsuit filed, regardless of the underlying merits is silly. First, the defendant may be completely innocent of any misconduct. Individuals abuse children, not corporations. Every church faces this problem. There is not any organization that also does not face the problem. Precision is important in life. When you call out every remotely possible claim, people assume you are calling "Wolf!" The Conti case has special facts that make it a potential winner. The WT had notice. In most cases, there is no notice. There are substantial legal issues that the WT raised that must be resolved by an appeals court.

    As a veteran of progressive causes, there is so much we can do against the WT. Living our own lives well is the best option. Providing informational resources, such as JWFacts does, is another. Talking to our friends about our JW experience is another. Providing emotional support for those leaving is crucial. I believe the emotional support is crucial. Writing books or blogs is yet another powerful way to go. If you study Gandhi or the American civil rights movement, these are types of actions they took. You don't waste your money and emotions on hopeless battles. Acknowledging your limits is another.

    I suppose it doesn't matter how many times I explain myself. B/c I will never say burning Bethel down is a good thing, many here will believe I am evil. This is precisely how many good movements are ruined. Fighting against each other for supremacy. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Being responsible about protests is not as sexy as being provocative. The very fact that this group was willing to lie on official state forms should announce their merit. I have not been here as long as most. Simon has provided a place for apostates to gather and exchange ideas and information for a very long time. The disrespect is gross. Compare what Simon has alreay done to what Cedar's has done. There is no contest.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    So was this op all about Cedars then? I just feel baffled by this thread. Like the twit I am I opened my silly heart and talked about leaving the cult, which was hell, and now I dunno what the question was really for.

  • satinka
    satinka

    Simon, It's not about revenge. For me going public with my book, my website and my blogs are about finding wellness and regaining health after leaving a cult. I want everyone to know that healing is possible. Because sad to say, I know some ex-members who really don't believe that they can heal and feel happiness, but I believe healing is fully possible. It's never too late to learn new ways of being, AS LONG AS WE ARE ALIVE.

    My JW-elder brother comes to visit me once in a blue moon, I guess to see if I'm repantant and ready to go back to the JW fold. He is mystified each time because he sees not a broken woman, but a happy woman who has rebuilt her life into something real. Something like that can cause a JW to start looking through the cracks. After all, why does she seem happy, when she's supposed to be dead? And yes you are right about not being able to help jws to leave, but I don't say a word to my brother the elder. I let my new life speak for itself.

    Simon, perhaps you don't know how much good your forum has done for me. The JWs try to isolate us from any human contact when we leave the organization. My mom had no one a generation ago. But your forum has provided ex-members with a place to connect with others and a place of acceptance with others who have been through similar situations --- and it gives us hope and a reason to go on. Your forum is a real life-saver. Yes, ABSOLUTELY A LIFE-SAVER! And it has made a liar out of the JWs because according to their belief system, once we leave we are supposed to self-destruct. But that doesn't happen as often any more, thanks to your forum!

    Mine is not the only story of survival and courage to rebuild my life. There are many stories like mine on this forum! And I want to read them all!

    Love,

    satinka

  • satinka
    satinka

    Why do I kill so many threads?

  • factfinder
    factfinder

    satinka, what is your book and website?

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    satinka - "Why do I kill so many threads?"

    Everybody's gotta have a hobby.

  • 3dogs1husband
    3dogs1husband

    Everyone on here is sooo negative about getting people out thru being active - True - loyal - strong - fully invested cult members - yup gotta find there own way ou most times. But there is a HUGE out ring of hangeroners (word?) that are ready and waiting for a reason - THAT is the market. I seen MY friend happy and she as much told me she had some knowledge about things I didnt know - hello google - hello outta there!! I hadnt been to a meeting in a year but was in NO WAY out mentaly and might have gone back :D

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I agree with your first statement OP, Simon. I believe a huge percent of JWs have a growing list of things that they find questionable. If you can, like you say, plant seeds and add to that list, it's a good thing.

    Even when I was convinced it was the truth, I felt I would not be able to resist looking at apostate literature if I had chanced across it. I secretly wished that I could take some literature from the people at assemblies or that someone would send some. I was curious. Just simply curious.

  • jws
    jws

    I will admit I was a bit rebelious and not a regular attender towards the end. I never was really gung ho about meetings and field service. But I was raised a JW and believed it to be the truth.

    Apostates always piqued my interest, even as a child. My first experience with them was at a district convention when they left imitation Watchtowers on the cars in the parking lot. I was not allowed to see the flyers, but really wanted to see what they said. I wanted to know so that I could find the logic flaw and argue back. At every district convention afterwards, I hoped to see the flyers again and get a hold of one and stash it away before anybody knew.

    In my early 20's, when I found a way to get my hands on Crisis of Conscience, I did. I couldn't put it down. All of my beliefs that the JWs were the true religion vanished before I was even done. BAM! Just like that.

    So, yes and no. I wasn't exactly the most devout, but I did believe I had the truth until I read the "apostate" book.

    Anti-JW videos don't really affect me because I'm not one anymore. I don't know how a JW would react. I know things like atheist videos help teach my kids that the Bible is full of some crazy stuff.

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