Why I was TRACKED DOWN by elder

by Derrick 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    After receiving a concerned email about a post on this board threatening to expose some participants to their employees (as being disruptive elements), I did some reading of their posts. Although I completely sympathize with Simon here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/ and have walked many miles in his shoes as an administrator for H2O from 1996 until present, I still was at a complete loss to assure this individual who sent me the email.

    I get a gut feeling that Simon really wouldn't carry through this threat! Perhaps H2O moderators including myself were fortunate enough not to have been driven far enough to ever post such a perceived threat to disruptive elements, which in fact was a warning and not intended as a threat. I have posted a lot of angry things myself, addressed to those who were continuous sources of disruption. I could have easily gone over the edge and threatened to turn someone in to their employer myself! I didn't.

    I'm therefore posting this experience I had during the last days of H2O before its traffic became too heavy for its ISP to bear, and they terminated our account abruptly. (I believe this was due to donations not sustaining increasing bandwidth charges, and bandwidth choking our dedicated server). I think my experience to follow will help those of you who are Jehovah's Witnesses, like myself, who have become lax over time in remaining anonymous.

    The thunderbolt of "lightning" came in the form of an email to H2O addressed to myself -- yes my full legal name and evidence to tie me to H2O since its inception -- from an elder in a Los Angeles congregation who asked me to phone him. This elder had posted on H2O regularly himself, and his wife had posted there also.

    The original Jehovah's Witness reformation group AJWR (Associated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform) hosted a graffitti board in 1996 when H2O started. His wife found their site, read their reform newsletter, got swept up in the festive graffitti board atmosphere and posted there.

    He found her posting one day when he was researching the web for a talk that he was about to give to his congregation. Before AJWR, this JW couple were true blue JWs who followed the party line to the letter, and strictly raised their kids to survive the "Los Angeles Sodom and Gomorrah school system." His wife's stumbling upon AJWR (pun intended) had led her husband from the office to read the site's reform newsletter, and to visit sites such as Kent Steinhaug's Watchtower Observer ( http://www.watchtower.observer.org/). Needless to say he was smart enough to use an anonymous proxy to do his surfing across the web. He's a businessman whom, it turns out, has since become heavily involved in the reform movement and has contacts to a few key people in the organization. The Society would dearly love to track these people down, needless to say.

    His message to me in revealing my identity and ability to report me -- should he wish -- to my local congregation, was simple. He wanted to make me aware of the ease in which someone can track you down, if you don't take extreme precautions. Thanks to this very liberal elder (but NOT the one and only "Liberal Elder" who posted on H2O!), I have learned how to surf in such a manner that my identity is safe.

    You can learn the techniques of surfing anonymously, if you feel that you have much to lose by having your employer notified of activities you trusted were confidential, or having your congregation notified.

    You might find it interesting to know that H2O ( http://www.geocities.com/hourglass2.geo/) has a privacy policy and we encourage anonymity through allowing Guests to login and enter their screen name without registration. H2O is moderated and we have a written Forum Participation Policy and Privacy policy. The site policies and moderator setup is modeled after the paradigm of the pay-for-use online services such as America Online, Prodigy, and CompuServe bulletin boards. The purpose of moderation is to protect freedom of speech by preventing abuses that could shutdown the site.

    Simon, if you're reading this, I would personally love to see you adopt such a system to prevent the appearance of bias or inequality in your own moderating decisions. I want to stress that I'm not saying there is bias or inequality going on, but there is no method for outsiders to measure the levels of unbias and equality. There are no basic policies one can point to (preferably with a link) that basically answer those who wish to know why an action was taken. There is no site charter here like one finds on other web forums and Usenet newsgroups (incidentally, a charter was part of forming alt.religion.watchtower.reform and alt.religion.watchtower.judicial to carry reform and judicial discussion into the Usenet realm.

    Friends, our livelihood and our social structure is at stake, and we owe it to our families and friends to protect our identities. Remember, if our employer fires us because they were notified of our activities on the web, it can destroy our lives. If our elders are notified, we can get disfellowshipped and have our families and friends shattered.

    In closing, surfing anonymously can protect our precious lives, which are so fragile if we only knew. We are like Humpty Dumpty in the children's fairy tale, with Alice behind the looking glass in a topsy-turvy world of Watchtower reasoning with twists and turns continuously -- sitting on the high wall of the internet, not realizing just how far we could fall.

    Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall
    Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
    and all the King's horses
    and all the King's men
    couldn't put Humpty together again.

    I hope this helps. You've done well, Simon, and there are always opportunities to improve. I realize this forum is in its infancy, and maturity in site operations does not happen overnight.

    Best wishes to you all,

    Derrick

    To see a World in a Grain of Sand
    And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
    Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
    And Eternity in an hour.

    -- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)

  • Hyghlandyr
    Hyghlandyr

    Interesting comments dude. For those that wish to know

    My legal/birth name is:

    Joseph James Frantz. Formerly of the North Olmstead Ohio Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses (the one I was baptised at) and then formerly of the Wooster Ohio Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    My birthright name, had I been born in Eire (Ireland) would have been:

    Seosamh Seamus Ó Foirtcheirn (Sho-sev Shay-mus O Forthsharn)

    My Online names are:

    Initiate, Hyghlandyr, PaganPathofProvocation....and a slew of others from ancient times mostly no longer in use.

    My True Name, My name by destiny, my spirit name, my chosen name, my name in all incarnations I have ever had is:

    Aorthoir Anbroc.

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    I am an apostate of the following religions:

    Irish Catholic (though I am considering returning there as I am most likely what is called a Cultural Catholic..it is my heritage, though perhaps not strictly my religion)

    Baptists.
    Pentacostals.
    Jehovah's Witnesses.
    Neo-Pagan.

    Any leaders from any of these religions are more than welcome to contact me.

    It should be noted while I am an apostate I am not an opposer. The two words are not synonomous with each other. A quick trip to http://www.m-w.com/ and a search on the word apostate will confirm the true meaning of the word apostate, which is not opposer.

    Female stalkers, attractive ones, are also welcome to contact me.

    Let's see, three wives, seven concubines, nine slave girls, and twenty-seven black nazi female body guards. I've only got forty-five women to go and my cult is complete

  • Simon
    Simon

    I have no problem with people not wanting to be identified and can understand the reasons why but when the anonimity is used to cause trouble then they forfeit that right as it affects other people who have proper reasons to be anonymous.

    I don't go looking to identify anyone who posts other than those who cause trouble. The different stories and explanations that have been posted and emailed to me point to someone who in my opinion either cannot help lying or is lying for a purpose and out to disrupt the forum and perhaps put people off gettign support or offering support to others (when a few heart redering stories turn out to be false).

    I like to think I'm an easy going guy and like to sort things out by talking BUT sometimes there comes a time when this does not work and I am forced to take a different approach. I would never make an idle 'threat' that I wasn't capable or willing to carry out but even now it's up to the person involved whether they still want to try and cause trouble as to whether I need to carry it out or not.

  • Simon
    Simon

    I think I should add that I believe posters like and indeed have a right to know that they are replying to genuine posts from real people as far as possible and not some invention dreamt up by someone.

    Many posters here spend much valuable time and energy responding to others offering help and advice and I don't want to see their goodwill being abused like this.

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    Simon, I totally respect your point of view, and pretty much share it. My only concern was that in one's zeal to protect those we love from the "bad guys," we don't dispense with due process.

    Getting the "bad guys" by following a process to corral them into a cage, allows onlookers to understand the process. Otherwise, innocent ones with vivid imaginations -- usually those who lead sheltered lives -- will conjure up all sorts of demons in their mind about what YOU might do to THEM. In fact, Simon, you are trying to protect them! But they might not appreciate that, unless they can see you follow a defined process.

    All I'm saying is to do what you're doing, but document the process for doing it, then post the process as a web page. H2O does this with the "FPP" and also a privacy statement. We assured those who are good contributors to discussions that we will not take advantage of their trust, while warning those who abuse their privileges that we can revoke our privacy policy at the flick of a switch, so to speak. In other words, you're not bound to adhere to privacy policies if visitors break the written site policies!

    I also believed that if someone violated a policy, to (a) give them a warning, then (b) suspend them for a brief period such as 30 days to start.

    Finally, if someone does something objectionable that is NOT in the site policies, quietly create a new rule in the policy. Then if they repeat the behavior, point them to the new rule. If they do it again, suspend them for 30 days. If they return in 30 days and do it again, double the suspension. Keep doubling it up to one year. Why stop at a year? Because these forums are about helping human beings, and humans change in the course of a year. Permanent banning is like the permanent disfellowshipping practiced by the organization. Surely we don't want to emulate the organization in heartlessly banning someone for life, and forcing them to grovel on their knees back to us to beg for "reinstatement" of posting privileges?

    I take the view that sites like this, and H2O, should be "sanctuaries" for JWs to get shelter, and "hide" from angry judicial committees, or just find a place to have a voice that the Watchtower thought was permanently silenced.

    Those who are causing you grief, Simon, are sometimes the ones who are most spiritually sick. Some are MPD's (multiple personality disorders). That is why H2O allowed 2 separate ID's, in order to allow those who needed another voice for personal (often deeply emotional and psychological) reasons. If we had not truly loved Stacy Burzova and worked through his/her anger and rage with compassion -- a transvestite or transexual JW man who had suffered terribly because of the Watchtower's intolerance for homosexuals and transexuals and the like -- perhaps Stacy would have died.

    Over time, Stacy became strong and left in peace. Stacy helped me realize that people whom we initially want to shut out, are crying out and need our help. You need to be tough, Simon, but you need to keep loving those who seem so threatening with their multiple personalities. If you must deal with them, I suggest doing it properly. Approaching their employer, for example, could result in a lawsuit that a court will likely allow (even if they ultimately rule in your favor). Consider that if you don't attend such a lawsuit then the judgment could default to the other party. My view is why make life difficult when we can, as one eloquently put it, go "through proper channels"? In other words, you can get their ISP to cut them off if worse comes to worse. However, I discovered -- and I have seen some really bad asses who terrorized H2O -- that if you treat them with "due process" and not bias, they respect that. They even responded favorably.

    I do appreciate your dilemma, having been there are done that for several years, and continuing.

    Derrick

  • Xander
    Xander

    From Simon's other posts, it looked like the only person he was threatening to 'expose' was someone who:

    A) Had been kicked/banned/etc. from the board REPEATEDLY and kept coming back

    B) Apparently posted excessively from a computer that didn't belong to him, anyway (his employer's)

    C) Never contributed intelligent dialog to any forum, and frequently stirred up trouble ('trolled')

    Any one of those would certainly be grounds to bring someone under suspicion, but this poster proceeded to do all 3.

    I certainly don't blame Simon for his actions - I'd do the exact same thing.

    Xander F
    (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)

    A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
    --George Santayana

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Rick said:

    : ... will conjure up all sorts of demons in their mind about what YOU might do to THEM.

    Rick, you're projecting your own paranoia onto Simon and everyone else. Not many suffer from such intense paranoic delusions as you do. Do try to lighten up -- you'll live longer.

    Fact is, Rick, you're still a JW at heart. That's why you can still advocate the Pharisaic "quietly create a new rule in the policy" and not even realize what you've done. You have little common sense, and so you obviously need to run your life by a big set of rules. I don't, Simon doesn't, and neither do most of the people on this board. Again, try to stop projecting your own nutty views on everyone else.

    AlanF

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    What's the worst that can happen if you are found out? Why gee, you might loose your membership in a mind controlling org. You MIGHT die some time and not get to see all of us appostates suffer at the imagined big A. Wow, you may even loose your family that only loves you if you believe like they do.. what a loss!

    Go ahead and keep fearing reality.

    carmel the caveman

  • LDH
    LDH

    LOL @ Carmel & Hygh. Amen.

    PS Rick...Like I've said before...Simon doesn't claim to [b]speak exclusively[b] for God, therefore his words and actions are not open to the same criticism as are the WBTS.

    This is the real world, it's Simon's board, and if he wants to ban me, you, or anybody else-he can.

    The whole world doesn't live the hypocritical lifestyle of the JW.

    Lisa

  • Dawn
    Dawn

    Carmel wrote:

    What's the worst that can happen if you are found out?

    I think we need to show a little more sympathy to some individuals who are still in a tough situation - like myself!!

    I am DF'd already and not worried about that. However, my father recently passed away and my mother needs a lot of support. The rest of my family (all JW's) live out of State so that leaves me and my husband to look after and care for my mom. I love her deeply, she is very lonely right now and needs us.

    If I was to be "exposed" as an apostate, her conscience would require her to cut me off completely. Not only would that hurt her beyond belief - it would hurt me!! I've suffered enough pain and damage by the JW's and don't care to suffer more. So for now - anonymity is important to me!

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