Another problem for JW apologists (page 9)

Jeffro

'scholar':

Nor does the Bible speaks of 'seventy years of Babylonish domination' so this simply is your narrow view of the seventy years.

I was going to be kind and try not to embarrass poor 'scholar'. But oh well.

I wonder if he has read Jeremiah 25:11:

11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’

So... did 'serving Babylon' mean exile? I've already clearly shown that it didn't, but here's Jeremiah 27:6-11 (just to be thorough):

6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of my servant King Neb·u·chad·nez′zar of Babylon; even the wild beasts of the ﬁeld I have given him to serve him. 7 All the nations will serve him and his son and his grandson until the time for his own land comes, when many nations and great kings will make him their slave.’

8 “‘“‘If any nation or kingdom refuses to serve King Neb·uchad·nez′zar of Babylon and refuses to put its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, I will punish that nation with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,’ declares Jehovah, ‘until I have ﬁnished them off by his hand.’

9 “‘“‘Therefore, do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your magicians, and your sorcerers, who are saying to you: “You will not serve the king of Babylon.” 10 For they are prophesying lies to you, so that you will be taken far away from your land and I will disperse you and you will perish.

11 “‘“‘But the nation that brings its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serves him, I will allow to remain on its land,’ declares Jehovah, ‘to cultivate it and dwell in it.’”’”

Jeremiah explicitly states that all the nations were to serve Babylon, but that exile was a punishment for those who did not submit to Babylon.

It's little wonder that the Watch Tower Society has not quoted Jeremiah 27:11 in living memory, and that the only mention of it in the Watch Tower Publications Index is in reference to a Watchtower article from 1937 (in which the original context and the concept of exile is ignored and the "king of Babylon" is said to represent... Jesus).

rawe

Hi Jeffro,

"All of the relevant scriptures are already harmonious without relying on JW superstitions. I have already shown this in detail here, here and here."

I just re-read your 607 for Beginners having read a version of it probably a year or so ago. I assume you are the same Jeffro who edits much of the material on Wikipedia regarding Jehovah's Witnesses. In any regards, I really appreciate the effort to put forth clear and accurate information on the subject. For me, dates tied to prophetic speculation have not as much of a concern as how Jehovah's Witnesses treated the subject of evolution. Nonetheless, the JW treatment of the 607 BCE date clearly shows contempt for truth and honesty.

Again, thanks Jeffro!

Cheers,

-Randy

Phizzy

I would like to add my thanks to you Jeffro, you do alot of research and hard work. What you present gives any honest JW a real problem, because using the Bible alone you prove the WT numerology that gives them 1914 to be wrong, utterly.

No1914 = no1919 = noFDS.

Londo111

marked

scholar

Jeffro

Post 4211

Correct for nowhere in Scripture is it expressly stated that there was a 'seventy year exile' but nowhere in Scripture is it expressly stated 'seventy years of Babylon's dominance'.

Your portrayal of the Exile is completely wrong for the Exile major occurred not with the first deportation of Jewry but the bulk of the population with the second deportation at the Fall in 607 BCE. You should read Rainer Albertz' Israel In Exile, 2003 which is the most comprehensive study of the Jewish Exile in modern times. His view agrees with ours but not on chronology but on the historical perspective.

scholar JW

scholar

Jeffro

Post 4215

Serving Babylon in the context of Bible Prophecy and the entire book of Jeremiah most certainly means Exile why in fact does the reference to a 'Exile occur in chapter 29 of the book of Jeremiah wherein it contains many refernces to 'exile' and 'exiled people'. Exile is the very theme of Jeremiah's prophecy and included many deporations during the reign of Nebuchadnezzer. You should read the book on the Exile by Albertz so that your comprehension of this subject is enlarged. The Exile is for Judah not the nations who of course suffered exilic punishment butnot to the same degree as Judah.

scholar JW

scholar

Ann O Maly

Post 3779

No, the Jewish Exile proper was not at the first deportation of the 'selected ones' of Judah in 617 BCE but the second deportation with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE. I refer you to Rainer Albertz' Israel In Exile, 2003, on p.2:"Thus it is usual to have the exilic period begin with the destruction of Jerusalem and the final elimination of Judah as a state in 587/586 BCE, even though there was already a golah (group of exiles) in Babylonia in 598/597 BCE, and Gedaliah's attempted reform and a further deportation in 582 still lay in the future.(Jer.52:30) END OF STORY !!!!!!

scholar JW

scholar

Jeffro

Post 4217

Jeremiah 25:11 is quite self explanatory for it simply describes 'servitude to Babylon' for seventy years not Babylon's domination. Servitude is a core element of the seventy year period which comprises Servitude-Exile-Desolation of Judah. No matter how you spin it it does not work for you.'Serving' can and in the case of this historical narrative it was in fact an Exile for it is described by the eyewitness to the events by the prophet Jeremiah who writes it all up in Jeremiah, Lamentations and of course Daniel and Ezekile both make reference to that catastrophe as an 'Exile'.

The punishment of Judah by Nebuchadnezzer was servitude and exile in Babylon as the history proves.

scholar JW

Jeffro

'scholar':

Your portrayal of the Exile is completely wrong for the Exile major occurred not with the first deportation of Jewry but the bulk of the population with the second deportation at the Fall in 607 BCE.

Serving Babylon in the context of Bible Prophecy and the entire book of Jeremiah most certainly means Exile why in fact does the reference to a 'Exile occur in chapter 29 of the book of Jeremiah wherein it contains many refernces to 'exile' and 'exiled people'. Exile is the very theme of Jeremiah's prophecy and included many deporations during the reign of Nebuchadnezzer.

Jeremiah 25:11 is quite self explanatory for it simply describes 'servitude to Babylon' for seventy years not Babylon's domination. Servitude is a core element of the seventy year period which comprises Servitude-Exile-Desolation of Judah. No matter how you spin it it does not work for you.'Serving' can and in the case of this historical narrative it was in fact an Exile for it is described by the eyewitness to the events by the prophet Jeremiah who writes it all up in Jeremiah, Lamentations and of course Daniel and Ezekile both make reference to that catastrophe as an 'Exile'.

Notice how the lying pseudo-'scholar' completely ignores Jeremiah 27, which explicitly states that exile would be a punishment for nations that would not serve Babylon. The Bible says that serving Babylon does not mean exile, but scholiar doesn't really care what the Bible says. Instead he just pours out the same old Watch Tower Society rhetoric. How very tedious.

You should read Rainer Albertz' Israel In Exile, 2003 which is the most comprehensive study of the Jewish Exile in modern times. His view agrees with ours but not on chronology but on the historical perspective.

Albertz also waffles on about how the Jews' 'relationship with God' sustained them and that the survival of Jewish tradition is "one of the great miracles of human history". Albertz tries to shoehorn '70 years' as a period from 587 to 520. He's wrong, and would probably do well to read what I have written on the subject. It is amusing, though, that 'scholar' will desperately cling to anything that seems to agree with some element of Watch Tower Society dogma, even though his chosen source—complete with its religious bias—still doesn't support JW 'chronology'.

nonjwspouse

thank you for the referance to jeremiah 27. I will add that to my bank of "underlines"

Another problem for JW apologists

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