Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist

by DS211 243 Replies latest jw friends

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  adamah

  Kate said-

  I believe in God because I want to. There is no proof either way. If evidence presents itself thet I am wrong so be it, I will change my mind. To qoute Einstein "Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind" I want both in my life. Kate xx

  Bloody Hades, Kate..... Did you not learn from the very thread YOU STARTED that Einstein's use of words like "religion" and "God" wasn't the same as yours? Did you ever learn what the term "Spinoza's God" meant to Einstein, a deist?

  http://news.softpedia.com/news/Science-Without-Religion-is-Lame-Religion-Without-Science-is-Blind-85550.shtml

  But even more importantly: if you don't understand the meaning of words written in German by a human who died within the last century, then what makes you think you're going to understand the meaning of words written TWENTY-FIVE centuries ago, in a ancient Hebrew language (which changed, BTW, as all languages do) and within a cultural context that is completely foreign and far-removed from a modern person's world-view?

  Adam
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  adamah

  TEC said-

  I think you missed the point on the handwashing, Adamah. Performing the 'ritual' does not clean the hands. It is ceremonial. It does not use soap... but just water and a blessing. So that one is ceremonially clean. So why WOULD a germ be deflected by that? And so why do you insist that Christ condemned people to dying from germs, when he spoke only against the 'ceremonial' handwashing, that did not prevent germs to begin with?

  (I looked up your Netilat-Yadayim... and it is about ritual purification. If you want your hands to be clean, as in physically clean, you have to wash them before the ritual... because the ritual has nothing to do with actually cleansing your hands)

  LOL, TEC! I posted less than 30 minutes ago, so do you REALLY expect me to believe you've conducted exhaustive research on the topic of handwashing practices throughout the Ancient Near East, let alone the practices advocated by the Pharisees before eating a meal that includes bread? All that research AND you wrote a post in response, in 26 minutes? Try again....

  Adam
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  tec

  Lol... anyone else is free to look it up themselves to see what this netilat yadayim (ceremonial handwashing) is all about. I don't need to convince anyone about it.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  KateWild

  Bloody Hades, Kate.-adam

  LOL! you took the bait adam love you to bits. So is Einstein's definition of God different to mine Adam? Why is it? How do I define God that is different to Einstein?

  All my love to you adam Kate xx
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  KateWild

  Tammy,

  The washing hands tradition is just that. We were tought it as a tradition. We only every did it ceremonially at weddings and Bar-Mitvah's and functions.

  Men first, then women, then kids.

  There was a jug of water and a bowl. We had to pour the COLD! water down from our elbows to our fingertips. Then we sat down to eat. It was a load of nonsense if you ask me, had nothing to do with eating with clean hand or hygiene, I think the same water was used for everyone and poured back into the jug for the next in line.

  Why are you and adam talking about handwashing anyway? How is that going to convince DS to choose God or atheism?

  Love Kate xx
• 

  tec

  had nothing to do with eating with clean hand or hygiene,

  Exactly. Thank you for sharing all of that.

  Why are you and adam talking about handwashing anyway? How is that going to convince DS to choose God or atheism?

  Adamah is using the ceremonial handwashing thing to spin that Christ in his ignorance told people NOT to wash their hands at all, and in so doing, caused many deaths (or failed to prevent them) with lack of hygiene. The account had nothing to do with that, but I imagine that if someone believed Adamah's interpretation, that it might cause them to reject Christ.

  DS can make his own mind up on the matter though, I am sure. Enough has probably been said on the matter though, lol.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  KateWild

  I imagine that if someone believed Adamah's interpretation-tammy

  You shouldn't imagine things like that. I am a newbie, Adam is harmless. He thinks he puts his view's across in a non-fundamental and non-dogmatic style. Not all newbie's would agree with him about his style.

  JWs are here searching, they want to be free thinker's and want to check facts.

  peace to you too tammy

  Love kate xx
• 

  KateWild

  so do you REALLY expect me to believe you've conducted exhaustive research on the topic of handwashing practices throughout the Ancient Near East-adam

  lol

  Kate xx
• 

  QC

  adam: Einstein's use of words like "religion" and "God" wasn't the same as yours [Tammy]..."Spinoza's God" meant to Einstein...deist.

  We agree Einstein did not believe in a personal God e.g. a religious denomination with prayers, ritual, dogma, etc. What's important here is he was not like you, an atheist.

  Einstein believed there is a transcendent God principle responsible the order in the universe:

  • "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist.”
  • "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."
  • "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details."
  • “Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe — a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble."
  • “There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.”
  • “What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling."
  • "The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection."
  • "When the solution is simple, God is answering."
  • —Einstein

  So, Einstein shares Tammy's world view in this sense, a "cause and effect" God principle, a first cause (not a religion) , is the reason order exist in the universe.
• 

  cofty

  Einstein shares Tammy's world view in this sense,

  No. Tammy is a theist of all theists. She believes god actually speaks to her directly via voices in her head. It answers specific questions and tells her what to say and do.

  She believes god heals and performs daily miracles.

  Her god could not be more different from Einstein's.