Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

by jgnat 169 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Qcmbr

  Knowledge is useful and can be made to benefit mankind. Incorrect knowledge is a detriment to the collective good. Religion is an idea about a false concept of reality that leads to many wasted lives. To make decisions it is arguable that we must have emotions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotions_in_decision-making) and rational thought alone is not enough to impel us to choose. Religion, alongside other disagreaable memes, ride upon emotion and hijack the decision making process.

  Religion distorts reality so that rational thinking is impaired and the net result is immorality and mis-aligned evaluations of worth or 'rightness'. Religion takes an idea (for example procreation) and turns it into an unnatural formula (only x or y constitutes acceptable procreation , only p or q relationships are allowed etc.) which is socially sub optimal and can only be maintained via immoral behaviour (reject r and z style relationships via social stigma or physical force.)

  Without religion we would have fewer pyramids (and the misery they took to build) and more moon bases. Without religion we would have conquered almost all illnesses. Without religion we could tell our children the truth.
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  Laika

  Jgnat

  Since you've brought up subjective experience, I recall reading in the archives that you thought God had called you out of an abusive relationship. How does your more skeptical self interpret this experience now?

  Feel free to ignore if the question is too personal. :/
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  jgnat

  It was an audible voice, separate from my own, directing me to call a number. I was rescued from myself.
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  jgnat

  Qcmber, our rational cognition is always influenced by our subjective cognition. The computing power invested in our subjective experience is miles above what is invested in our rational, conscious mind.

  "I'm a military man, I did what I did only because my country had to be saved from tribalism and feudalism. If I failed, it was only because I was betrayed. The so-called genocide was nothing more than just a war in defence of the revolution and a system from which all have benefited." Mengistu Haile Mariam as quoted in Riccardo Orizio, Talk of the Devil: Encounters with Seven Dictators, (Walker and Company, 2003)

  Mengistu was in power when Ethiopea was in the grip of its worst famine, 1983-85 .
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  LisaRose

  Qcmbr, you are using a very broad brush to condemn all religion because of the beliefs of some of them.

  The fact is many people need religion, or think they do. You will not be able to convince most people that God does not exist, so the next question is how do we move forward in today's world and help people to adapt to the new realities? You have seen here how futile it us to convince someone who believes in God to give up that belief. But if their church changes and adapts, then the people will too.

  There are churches out there that have already adapted. I attended one where they were fine with you even if you were an Athiest. They were on the more liberal end of the spectrum, but I think there has been a massive shift in the way people think in the last few years. Fifty years ago most churches would have condemned you for having sex outside of marriage, now I doubt many do. The same with homosexuality.

  This was a response to reality, people's behavior changed and many churches adapted. I think what needs to happen now is that churches need to lead this adaptation. Those churches that do will help their members accept reality, like evolution. Those that dont, the the JWs, will eventually become extinct. Then religion can really be one a force for good, by bringing people together and supporting them, showing them the best way to be.
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  Qcmbr

  Actually religion is one of many reality distorting memes. Religion, unchallenged becomes a monster (my personal interest is in the awfulness that Utah became when it was ruled by one of our currently more benign religions, mormons but you can substitute in medieval Catholicism, Taliban Aghanistan or any other times when religion takes over government.) Religion becomes its less scary cousin when it is tempered by secularism and law. When we are unable to challenge an idea we risk totalitarianism and that is what religion has historically become as soon as it was adopted as a ruling power.

  Even those churches FORCED to accept evolution by the facts still teach incorrect concepts based upon a version of the emperor's new clothing story. The moment you take a child and teach them that there are invisible people called angels and demons you are guilty of distorting reality. Snakes don't talk, horses don't fly and your lifestyle choices do not send you to hell.
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  KateWild

  Qcmbr- I agree with jgnat and LisaRose
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  Qcmbr

  LisaRose - the way we move forward is simple. We make it illegal to teach children religion and we allow them to choose when they are older. The question of religion will soon pass into history as an awkward dark age of reasoning as few people who are not taught religion as a child will seek it as an adult.
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  Laika

  Jgnat - Wow. Do you think the voice was god/divine?

  Q - how would you enforce that law? Doesn't seem to be working in China btw.
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  jgnat

  The power of collective effort, even if it seems for a trivial cause to us now, has all sorts of side benefits for our society and indeed can propel us forward. For instance, it might be argued that the effort required to plant a flag on the moon was not worth the cost. Empirically, the money might have been better spent on Ending World Hunger. Going to the moon had a galvanizing effect on the morale of the nation, however, and perhaps the world. We also gained the side benefits of innovation, including miniaturization. Which led to hand-held computers. And the internet.

  In the past, collective effort spent on a soaring cathedral for instance, led us to flying buttresses, barrel ceilings and other structural innovations. A town with a cathedral, well, that was something. If the cathedral were taller than it's neighbours, bonus. Now, put a clock in the town square and we are really going places.