Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

by jgnat 169 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jgnat

  Those others. They think differently than us, they act differently, and they smell funny. Not only that, they are a threat to our very well-being. These "others" must be destroyed.

  No stonings in my neighbourhood lately. Could this be another example of a disconnect between expressed belief and behavior? How would a similar show of hands to a statement of faith show out at a Kingdom Hall? Collective showing of hands is pretty strong social pressure. Muslims are still living under the delusion that they are one religion.

  My unthreatening, grandmotherly demeanor finds me in unusual conversations. I was once approached in a hotel hot-tub by a young Native man, former evangelical Christian, current Muslim. He had gone through a tough, tough life and had been betrayed by those closest to him. I heard all about it. I did throw in a comment that the Muslims were not as unified as they seem. And I told him he would make a great father one day. Such a sincere young man. He didn't get a convert that day, heh heh heh.

  Want to scare a Christian conspiracy theorist?. Mention the Humanist Manifesto. It has signatories.
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  tec

  Just chiming in real quick about the video...

  It was kind of a loaded question he asked, wasn't it? Do you believe that if something is written in the Quran, from Allah, as a punishment, that it is the proper punishment (something like that, I am paraphrasing).

  Loaded... because while they may all have put their hand up as yes, to that... they do not all agree as to the meaning of what is written in the Quran. The way that question was formed... who - other than a Muslim who does not believe that the Quran came from Allah or that it is a holy book - could have said no?

  And there are also places in the Quran where it is written that it is better to BE wronged, and let God judge, than to lift a hand and strike back against the one who wronged you.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  LisaRose

  Qcmbr, you will get no argument from me that we should have not gone into Iraq, you are preaching to the choir on that score. You lose me when you seem to be saying we should outlaw all religion because of it, you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, IMHO. Bush was an idiot, whether his stupidity was due to his religion could be debated, but it doesn't make every believer the enemy, any more than the actions of one atheist make them the enemy. It is this extremist kind of thinking that is the problem, and you seem to be advocating a very extremist viewpoint yourself. Two wrongs never make a right.

  The church does have an ability to influence people, for good or bad. Instead of trying to get rid of it, which won't happen anyway, challenge it to change and adapt and become a new kind of religion that works for people in this century.
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  Band on the Run

  I believe the collective aspect is why I am drawn to progressive Christianity. Religion can be a force for good or bad. I can't explain why but the idea of generations of Christians going before me gives me warmth. Of course, I am selectively choosing the parts that I like. I love Anglican services. People taking their seats, dressing properly, singing. Community means much to me. I never felt part of a community I wanted to be a part of growing up. We never fit in. There was rejection. I tried so hard to be good and, therefore, be loved. My favorite JW relatives never thought they would survive God's wrath. It was impossible to be good enough. The concept of grace was hard for me. I wanted to try it out for a while. God already accepted me. Now I must learn to accept acceptance.

  C.S. Lewis' Narnia Chronicles and Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time comforted me. The art and music seem heavenly. I wanted some beauty after the KH.

  I volunteered in the Homeless and AIDS ministries. They were very popular. We loved serving. I don't know how much of a difference our actions made. Collective as a word scares me. I wanted to belong to a caring and articulate community that is passionate. It is hard to describe. I stumbled upon a community where asking questions was considered a high art. People were always debating the role of the church in WWII or in the South during the Civil Rights Movement. Today I am drawn to those working on the environment. My favorite day is St. Francis' Day when the animals are blessed in church. The Witnesses were so separate and isolated. There was always this anger and dinkiness among the Witnesses. The music is so dreadful. I love cathedrals. It sounds very young adult. The fine arts draw me, too. I feel I experience something universal.

  I did seek this form of religion. It found me. By an accident. My life feels richer. I would rather be an atheist than a fundamentalist. They seem to exclude too many people. The rigid rules bother me. Maybe my quest is just to find a form of worship as opposite to the Witnesses as possible. I would be fine with atheism but I prefer something more emotionally warm.
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  LisaRose

  I agree with you BOTR, Athiesm is logical and factual, but leaves me unfulfilled. To me it's just black or white thinking, the other side of the JW coin. That is why I believe you will never be able to force the majority of mankind to accept it. For good or bad, most people have a desire for the spiritual. Instead of trying to force people to give that up (which will never happen anyway), why not direct it to a more positive version?

  I read the chronicle as of Narnia as a child, several times, I was somewhat obsessed. I think it is what caused me to be drawn to the JW fantasy of a paradise earth.
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  jgnat

  I was reading an account of a man who suffered a brain injury to his emotional centers. He could conduct a reasonable conversation, but his emotional cognition did not support his decisions. He couldn't make up his mind. His counsellor asked if he would like to meet again the following week and the poor man spent the next twenty minutes evaluating all the pros and cons. His counsellor finally got him off the hook, "How about next Wednesday, then?" and the patient gratefully agreed.

  So it seems to me that black and white thinking comes from our emotional side.
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  jgnat

  LisaRose, the image of those dwarves in heaven, unable to recognize their surroundings, will never leave me.

  
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  Qcmbr

  Lisa - don't forget a sizeable chunk of the world's religions are atheist so to claim that it is just black and white thinking is to claim atheism is more than it is ( a lack of belief in any god ). Someone like myself posts more from an anti-theist and humanist viewpoint than from an atheist one( since that is summed up in a single sentence.) I would never ban religion since that is a road of totalitarianism and is immoral but I wouldremove all religious privilege and rigorously examine the claims of religionists. I would tighten up laws to protect individuals and I would encourage doctrinal change via fiscal penalties ( worked with early Mormons to get rid of the hell of enforced polygamy) - a good example would be to prosecute the WT society for every death caused by refusing blood and a fee for every person taking blood products for religious reasons, in addition those who turn up at the hospital to ensure blood doesn't get taken would be individually prosecuted for manslaughter in the event of a death.

  When people get harmed by a policy it is society's duty to modify that policy.
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  Ruby456

  I agree with Tammy re cofty's generalisation

  The fact is that religion as an irrational and destructive force (a pox on mankind) is a myth that was generated after the reformation - secular states wanted to promote themselves as modern, secular, peace loving forces and to do this they had to denigrate religion as violent and destructive. In reality those states were just as violent and destructive as their religious predecessors. this raises the question of where violence comes from - is it inherent within humans or do we live in a destructive world. I don't think it is solely either but these issues need thinking about as to live in a more peaceful world would be great.

  edit: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Myth-Religious-Violence-Ideology/dp/0195385047 parts fo this book can be read online
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  Ruby456

  omg - just scrolling through the book i linked in above and guess what - Jehovahs witnesses are mentioned in chapter4. I'm just reading this

  edit: have fun guys and gals. btw William Cavanaugh (the guy who wrote the book) is a Catholic theologian and teaches at univeristy in the US. Still I think his thesis needs consideration