I told the elders that I would take blood and donate blood

by Daniel1555 75 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  adamah

  Walls of Jericho said- "Non belief is not a judicial matter"? how can you believe the org is the chosen channel of God if you don't believe in God? i can't believe they are so blinded by their own man made, pharisaical rules that they can't just act the way even they believe Jah would want them to.

  I suppose an atheist could defend their stance on the basis of technically NOT violating the 10 commandments, since they don't have any other God before Jehovah, since an atheist think ALL Gods are on the same position: bunk?

  Of course, a clever elder (which is an oxymoron; he's likely just a garden-variety, run-of-the-mill moron!) may sniff around about the atheist's beliefs on the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but apparently the GB doesn't care WHAT you're secretly thinking about as your higher power, just as long as they get to serve as the channel for it so THEY get to call the shots.

  Adam
• 

  problemaddict

  Daniel,

  My guess is that you are used to a more liberal organization that most of us being in Switzerland. They may simply try to reason with you and that would be the end of it. if they ask you the "loyalty questions" as JWfacts brought out, do not answer yes or no. Give them another answer. Something like, "well I certainly believe the slave tries their best but they are imperfect as well". Something that deflects, and doesn't make you lie (unless you don't care about that i guess).

  In addition, have your arsenal ready just in case. Reason with them from the sciptures. 3 of my favorite points are below.

  1) White blood cells are forbidden but make up less than 1% of blood volume. Ambumin (a protein) makes up more than double that, but is allowed. Who decided this? What is the principle it is based on? In the medical community those are both "fractions" of whole blood.

  2) Jesus told the Pharisees that David was justified in eating the showbread, because life was at stake. How does Jehovah feel about children with sickle cell anemia or trauma situations where nothing but whole blood will do? What was the point of "mercy not sacrifice" in Jesus words.

  3) The prohibition was on eating blood specifically. If you are bleeding out, you cannot drink blood and live. if you are starving, you cannot put food in your veins, you need a feeding tube. Could ones conscience decide that a blood transfusion is using the blood for its intended purpose?

  Bonus: The Noachian creed was a dietary restriction, and the animals were bleed because they were dead. Well you are not getting blood from dead donors. They are very much alive! In the case of organ transplants which are a "conscience matter" the donor is usually dead.

  Record it! You don't have to share it unless you want to. maybe just a transcript. This is the best weapon we have right now.

  Also, be respectful. DOn't get into a mess. Your wife will see you went, and that is that. If she thinks you were hard headed more than they just didn't have the answers, it could make that difficult.
• 

  Daniel1555

  Problemaddict: Thanks for your points. I wrote them everything you mentioned plus some more reasons. thanks for your care.
• 

  Daniel1555

  Syme: thanks for warning me especially of the 2 witness rule. I didn't really think about thsz
• 

  snare&racket

  When they come round, record the conversation,

  option a, tell them you are recording ...thst way they likely wont give you medical advice at all

  option b, record them without saying, then at the end, say you will take their advice on board and then tell them you have recorded it,they csnt mske you delete it.

  a doctor will hand write, record on tape or anything you like when giving medical or personal advice, but then they have nothing to hide and are qualified to be saying such things.
• 

  Vidiot

  Data Dog - "They really think that they are spirit-directed detectives!"

  Or in the case of JCs, hotshot prosecuting attorneys.
• 

  RayPublisher

  BTTT

  Yeah when I was an elder and assigned to investigate an alleged wrongdoer we had a couple elders that thought they were private detectives and wanted me to go on a stakeout on the fellow.

  I said to them, "I have better things to do than go down to a guy's shop at 5am and wait in the parking lot until he drives up and jump out. I would rather be with my family or shepherding someone."

  (Awkward silence for about three seconds)

  Then they two junior G men promptly volunteered to go.
• 

  Paralipomenon

  What I would suggest is writing a letter to Bethel and ask if you would be punished for following medical advice from your doctor. Ask if signing the blood card is mandatory even if it goes against your personal wishes. State your reasoning and affirm that you have no other issues with Watchtower doctrine and which to keep the decision between you and your wife.

  When the elders meet with you, mention you sent the letter and that you would like to hold off discussion until they reply.

  This puts the elders in a hard position. If they rush to take action and a letter comes back from HQ to the contrary, they will look bad. Watchtower HQ will be very careful not to take a firm stand on the issue as if you end up dying from lack of transfusion, despite your desire to have one, they could be liable in a civil suit. They won't want to give any tangible evidence.

  If you want to get cute you could ask if taking 99/100's of blood is acceptable since it is still a fraction.
• 

  adamah

  Paralip said-

  What I would suggest is writing a letter to Bethel and ask if you would be punished for following medical advice from your doctor. Ask if signing the blood card is mandatory even if it goes against your personal wishes. State your reasoning and affirm that you have no other issues with Watchtower doctrine and which to keep the decision between you and your wife. When the elders meet with you, mention you sent the letter and that you would like to hold off discussion until they reply.

  This puts the elders in a hard position. If they rush to take action and a letter comes back from HQ to the contrary, they will look bad. Watchtower HQ will be very careful not to take a firm stand on the issue as if you end up dying from lack of transfusion, despite your desire to have one, they could be liable in a civil suit. They won't want to give any tangible evidence.

  LOL, brilliant! I like the way you think...
• 

  jgnat

  Paralipomenon .