I know TTATT... so why do JW apologists still scare me?

by ILoveTTATT 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Adam,

    Not everyone who believes in God is limbic system impaired. This is a silly assertion. Tolerance is a good place. Most religions embrace a wide set of members. I don't consider myself ignorant or limbic impaired. People here seem to have no idea how sophsiticated and intellectual Christianity can be. It is no wonder based on the Christianity we see on the news. Mainstream Christianity does not believe in evangelizing much. Indeed, I would have no exposure to it but for an accident. It is a shame. Our democratic ideals in America mean we can choose. There are many wacko atheists out there. Wacko limbo impairment is not an exclusive description for believers only. We can all be wacko. I wonder sometimes why atheists feel it is their moral imperative to hound every believer. Next, I remind myself that this not true of atheists in general lbut a small subset. Don't lump people of my ilk with fundamentalists or Pentecostal members.

    Emotions play a large role in our minds. Sometimes during bad storms, if I am safely inside, I can see how beautiful the storm is. There are other times, however, when thunderstorms or weird weather patterns bring me back to my childhood fear. The more time passes, the fewer times I think of Armageddon. I was exposed to this belief. Perhaps some brain chemistry occurs. Maybe the memories of Armageddon are a form of PTSD. There is no doubt that they are powerful.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Perhaps you're afraid it will suck you back in or trigger old cult thoughts or behaviors. That's how I feel when I hear kingdumb melodies. Nausea and a cold sweat.

  • adamah
    adamah

    BOTR said-

    Not everyone who believes in God is limbic system impaired. This is a silly assertion.

    Read it again, and point out where I said EVERYONE.

    Apparently you missed this part?

    Adam said- Yes, there's a few believers who are able to get their amygdalas under control, but for many....

    I suspect your limbic system apparently drove you to make that silly assumption and use it to straw-man me, by extending my claim well-beyond what I said to turn it into "EVERYONE who believes in God".

    BOTR, do you see the problem with letting your limbic system remain in control, and how it allows one's rationality to be over-taken at times? Thank you for providing an example of it, in this very thread....

    This bit of your comment was interesting:

    BOTR said- Sometimes during bad storms, if I am safely inside, I can see how beautiful the storm is. There are other times, however, when thunderstorms or weird weather patterns bring me back to my childhood fear. The more time passes, the fewer times I think of Armageddon. I was exposed to this belief.

    Ah, the childhood memories of seeing bad weather or a natural disaster, and having someone in the group (a sibling, if not a parent) say it is just a preview of coming attractions for the destructive power to be experienced during Armageddon....

    It reminds me of driving by local churches and someone in the car pointing out how the steeple with a cross on top will tumble off it's perch during Armageddon.

    Adam

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    For me knowing ttatt is one thing being able to prove it with scripture and at the same time blowing up their dogma from the bible is the key. Now if a jw talks to me I can destroy them so completley from the bible in most cases they can do nothing but slither away.

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    I'm a non-jw who started researching the history and evolution of the denomination and became fascinated. To be honest, I was probably more effective in communicating TTATT before I started studying the deconstructions of the dogma. After reading the deconstructions of "The TRUTH," I was totally lost. Discussing anything with a JW became a monstrous task because I was challenged with attempting to remember constructions AND deconstructions.

    It's enough to know that the interpretations being thrown at the Witnesses has mal-intent. Become confident in your understanding and I suspect the intimidation factor will be reduced. To be fair, I have no emotional scarring to overcome, but whether theist or atheist, confidence seems to be the pattern I see here on JWN as well.

    You have a mouth and now you have wisdom. I'm hoping that over time and as you keep reading outside of the WT, you'll become more confident.

    Luke 21:14-15

    14 Settle it therefore in your minds not to meditate beforehand how to answer, 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi LoveTTATT, As some other posters have written (or alluded to), you may need to either see a psychologist or attend group therapy sessions to use psychological regression techniques to overcome your WTBTS's induced phobias.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • ILoveTTATT
    ILoveTTATT

    Well here's the thing:

    Me: "1914 is bullshit"

    JW apologist: "How dare you question the GB! You will die in Armageddon... You're a filthy apostate..."

    Me: (get nervous, know how to answer): Well, you guys thought it was 1799, 1874, 1878... (I "win" the argument)

    Me, later: upset. What if... No, it's BS!

    I think Simon's response is the best. Conditioned response, will fade with time. I also need to really know my TTATT in and ou

  • jam
    jam

    The more I viewed documentries on Vietnam, mentally I got better.

    The more I encountered my JW family and those at my door I felt

    in control. Face your demons.

  • ILoveTTATT
    ILoveTTATT

    It may also be that you're not fully convinced about TTATT. You may still need to make The Truth About The Truth your own - more deeply.

    I think I know that it is not God's organization. I should deeply study TTATT to know what arguments to say to someone. I still need to get my dad and my mom out, if it is possible.

    Another factor could be continued belief in bible-based theism. The JWs teachings on Armageddon and other subjects that induce your fear are based on their interpretations of the bible. As long as you still believe the bible, there is always the potential for you to wonder at the back of your mind if what they're saying could be true after all as they're using an authority you still respect - the bible. Do you still believe in God and the bible?

    Here's the thing: I think it is conversations with my dad. I want to get him out, and I really fear that, since he still believes in God and the Bible, that if I cannot convince him Biblically about TTATT, then I will be in trouble. I have problems showing him about blood and shunning.

    I personally have to do research on blood and shunning. Why are the JW's wrong on these points, Biblically?

    I also have to do research on the Bible itself. If I can prove to myself that the Bible is not true, then I will feel a lot more free... Because if not, I will always have, in the back of my mind, a deep-seated doubt or guilt feeling, that I am doing things that are not correct.

    Having done enough research on the subject of religion in general I'm now an atheist and hence have absolutely no fear from anything they print or say. Not only do I know TTATT but I also know TTAR. I'm not trying to encourage you to become an Atheist (although you owe it to yourself to do some honest, objective research into religion if you haven't already done so). I'm just telling you why you could be feeling the way you do while I'm not. Even if you're still convinced about theism, your knowing that it can cause you to doubt TTATT can in itself help you to better cope with and overcome your doubts.

    I still have to do research. For example, I haven't really researched the most common "it has design, therefore, there must be a designer" argument.

    Thanks for helping me clear my head!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    TD has the best threads and comments on blood.

    It might be easier on you to study, "what is true?" than all "what is wrong" with the WTS. Studying differently, taking the text in context of history, helps a lot.

    Based on my preferences and history, Goodreads suggested this book for me:

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40532.Reading_the_Bible_Again_For_the_First_Time

    It looks good.

    As for how literally to take the bible, it helps to understand the context under which the New Testament was formed and what the early Christians really were like. They would be an alien culture to us now.

    The character and shape of the WTS is very much a product of its' time, not first century Christians. We aren't huddling in the catacombs polishing the skulls of the saints.

    There were a number of religions sprung up at the dawn of the industrial age (mid-1800's or thereabouts). The WTS is dependent on a literate populace with readily accessible printed materials. It's a corporate structure, borrowed from the industrial model. Conformity and uniformity is prized, as it is on the assembly line. And the door-to-door work, along with the midweek practice sessions, I swear, is modelled after the Fuller Brush Company.

    Conformity and uniformity is valued now, not 2,000 years ago. Paul's letters were copied imperfectly. Fragments were copied and spread. The copyists weren't terribly concerned about accuracy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_papyri

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