What's With INVISIBLE ??

by Cold Steel 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TD

  He came in 1914, we're told, but no one saw him and, thus, no one could prove whether he did or he didn't. How do you suppose Jesus will be able to do anything if he can't be seen?

  Well, ya gotta understand that all the things he did were invisible too. Of course the 'Gentile' rulers weren't visibly ousted from power. Their 'lease' was invisibly cancelled by the invisible king. The fact that nothing whatsoever has changed as far as them being allowed to rule is of no account.

  Actually, do they really not understand this means that while Jesus was dead for three days, that his spirit went to preach to those who had lived in the days of Noah -- the spirits in prison? Wait, since they believe the dead "sleep," then how can there be spirits in prison?

  Not to hijack a perfectly fun thread, but don't JW's believe that these 'spirits' were the horny demons who came down and took wives?
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  Cold Steel

  AbleBodiedMan: Can you now rationalise what you said above with Paul's words here,
  which also do not mention anything about invisibility?

  

  What’s there to rationalize?

  God presently is veiled and dwells in a realm of “everlasting burnings” which we have no access to, in glory that would turn unprotected men to cinders. That glory will destroy the unprotected wicked when Jesus returns, while those who are good, decent, honorable human beings will be spared and subsequently taught the gospel.

  People who have had near death experiences report seeing a light far more brilliant than the sun, but is not uncomfortable to look upon in the spirit. Almost all comment on the beauty of this light.

  When Jesus returns, every eye shall see him and he will come in the clouds of heaven, as the two angels said he would. It will not be invisible, and all the nations of the earth will know he has returned and that he’s the Christ.

  .
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  Cold Steel

  TD: Not to hijack a perfectly fun thread, but don't JW's believe that these 'spirits' were the horny demons who came down and took wives?

  Ah-ha, yes. But in the very next chapter (Chapter 4), Peter writes:

  

  Note how Peter refers to Jesus as "ready to judge the living and the dead." How could he judge the dead if they were non-existent?

  Peter here is talking about people who had not heard the gospel, those who revel in excess and live their own lives oblivious to the gospel. Because there are such people, Peter writes, it's for that reason that the gospel is preached to them that are dead. The "horny demon" theory is, in my view, ridiculous. In many instances in the scriptures, the people of God are referred to as the "sons of God." The daughters of men are the pagan gentiles who seduced the sons of God and led them into their own vile practices.

  The dead are thus judged as though they were in the flesh, but they live as spirits, or "in the spirit."

  The horny angel idea was first written as fictional accounts in works like the the book of Enoch. Spirits cannot materialize bodies for, as Jesus said, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see I have."

  .
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  ablebodiedman

  Cold Steel,

  I'm good with that!

  Many think it is Jesus Christ who casts Satan down to earth.

  If that is the case then Jesus Christ saying that; "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven."falls in line with how you responded to my inquiry.

  and also:

  Luke 17:24

  For even as the lightning, by its flashing, shines from one part under heaven to another part under heaven, so the Son of man will be.

  abe
• 

  TD

  Ah-ha, yes. But in the very next chapter (Chapter 4), Peter writes....

  Well yeah, I would agree that the LDS view of 1 Peter 3:19 makes much more sense, especially to the modern reader.

  The entire idea comes from 1 Enoch and Moffat even translates the 'he' parenthetically as 'Enoch' with a footnote explaining why.

  It's not the first time I've noticed that JW's cherry pick bits and pieces from their sources without actually accepting the whole.
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  Band on the Run

  I was reading the wikipedia articles concerning Jehovah's Witnesses the other night. From this side of things, the "invisible" return seems to be a con job. Your prophecy failed and you like the income believers bring you so declare an "invisible presence." It is so funny. Yet my family just accepted the invisible presence. Jesus' ministry was so public. Does Jesus play peek and boo now? He is here or he is not here.

  Their depiction of history and current events is so distorted. The sad part is that the rank and file never notices.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Cold Steel You could go mad trying to work it out - many have.
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  Frazzled UBM

  Invisible return was what Nelson Barbour came up with to explain his second failed prediction of Christ's return (in 1874 the first was in 1873) which was later adopted by Russell. Its genious is that it can't be disproven. This reminded me of a converstation I had with my 7 year old who is experiencing cognitive dissonance re Santa - he asked me: 'Why won't Santa deliver my presents when I am awake?' Me: 'Because he doesn't want you to see him.' Him: 'But he talked to me in the Grotto at the Department Store so why doesn't eh want me to see him when he comes to our house?...oh and is he the real Santa or was the one I saw last year the real Santa cos the one I saw last year had a bigger belly?' I was very proud of his critical thinkng skills but tried to answer in a way that didn't mislead him. I can see why he has never bought the BS at the KH. It is a pity his mother is yet to exercise the same question asking ability.
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  Legacy

  HI,

  Thought of something else invisible...

  Has anyone ever heard of witnesses helping others in need besides their brothers...If they did...

  THEIR ASSISTANCE IS..INVISIBLE...

  Legacy
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  poppers

  Its genious is that it can't be disproven.

  If someone makes the claim Jesus came invisibly then the burden of proof rests with them, so ask them to show you the proof.